1994 Permanent House Journal Printed Pages 2710-2719 - South Carolina Legislature Online

Journal of the House of Representatives
of the Second Session of the 110th General Assembly
of the State of South Carolina
being the Regular Session Beginning Tuesday, January 11, 1994

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Printed Page 2700, Feb. 24 | Printed Page 2720, Feb. 24

Printed Page 2710 . . . . . Thursday, February 24, 1994

DOCTOR LAMBERT - EXAMINATION BY MR. COUICK:
Q. Doctor Lambert, I have your driver's license indicating that you live at 133 Rose Avenue in Georgetown, South Carolina, 29440. Your voter registration indicates the same address. Is that a correct current address?
A. Yes, sir, it is.
Q. And I believe that's in Georgetown County; is that correct?
A. That's correct.
Q. Have you had an opportunity to review your Personal Data Questionnaire Summary?
A. Yes, sir, I have.
Q. Is it correct or anything you would like corrected on it?
A. It's correct.
Q. Good. Thank you. If you could -- thank you. Doctor Lambert, do you own any utility stock?
A. No, sir.
Q. Does anyone that resides in your household own any utility stock?
A. No, sir.
Q. Doctor Lambert, you've been employed by the US Postal Service since 1973; is that correct?
A. That's correct.
Q. And you were a graduate of La Salle Law School in 1979?
A. That's correct.
Q. With an LLB. You've also received two degrees from Bethany Theological Seminary; is that correct?
A. That's right.
Q. You received an MRE in 1990 and a doctor, I believe, of Divinity would be the counterpart; is that correct?
A. It's a doctorate degree in Christian Counseling.
Q. Okay. In 1992. Do you have any outside employment other than the Postal Service?
A. No, sir. I do not.
Q. Do you utilize your two divinity degrees to any degree in any type of employment?
A. I do some counseling on the side.
Q. But you do not have a church that you serve as a minister?
A. No, sir, I do not.
Q. If you were to be elected to the Public Service Commission, what of your employment would you maintain? Would you continue with the Postal Service or with your counseling or anything else?
A. I would retain with the Postal Service and the counseling if it didn't interfere with the Public Service Commission.

Printed Page 2711 . . . . . Thursday, February 24, 1994

Q. How many hours a week do you work at the Postal Service?
A. 40.
Q. You work a regular route? Are you a deliverer, mail carrier or --
A. No, I'm a window clerk.
Q. Window clerk. Are you able to rearrange your hours to some degree as a window clerk?
A. Oh, yes.
Q. What degree of flexibility would you have?
A. Well, if I'm informed in advance that they -- there was a meeting or something that I had to come to, I could take annual leave and leave. And tell the supervisor that I had to be off and they would allow it.
Q. If I were to guestimate that you would need to be available pretty much on a weekly basis from 8:30 on Tuesday morning until 5:00 o'clock on Thursday afternoon, would that be workable within your current working schedule?
A. I think so.
Q. You think your employer would let you work your hours on the weekend or whatever such that you could do that?
A. Right.
Q. Why do you wish to run for the Public Service commission, Doctor Lambert?
A. The reason that I decided to run for it because I'm constantly in contact with the public and hearing the concerns of those that are on fixed income, those that are widows and those that are the average working employee, their concerns -- they want to be heard and they want somebody that would have concerns for them to allow to give their input. And this is one of the main reasons why I decided it go ahead and run for it.
Q. You show that you're a president of a local APWU union in Georgetown even today. Is that still correct?
A. Yes.
Q. Your local union. Would you maintain your union activities if you were elected to the Public Service Commission?
A. Like I stated before, if it doesn't interfere with what I have to do, I would.
Q. What do you think are the one or two major issues facing the Public Service Commission that you would want to tackle?
A. I think that the rate hikes should be a concern, safety of the natural gas should be a concern and the carrier transportation should be a concern and which I think the very minimum is spent on your carrier transportation today in South Carolina. It should be a lot higher.

Printed Page 2712 . . . . . Thursday, February 24, 1994

Q. Doctor Lambert, you have mentioned a good bit that you're
-- you want to relay the concerns of folks that you meet in the public. That would certainly make you a good consumer advocate on the Public Service Commission. What degree of responsibility do you owe to the utilities to regulate industries that would appear before the Public Service Commission?
A. None whatsoever.
Q. What would be the factors that you would use in determining whether a rate hike was appropriate or not?
A. First of all, I would ask for a summary of what their profits were and also what their -- what it would cost them in the years to keep the service up and this would have to be taken into consideration in order for them to have a price hike. But if their profits -- and my concern is that if their profits are sufficient to sustain them in years to come, they should have a price hike.
Q. When you say profits, is there a benchmark level of profitability that you would consider to be appropriate in the utility industry today, not 10 years ago or ten years in the future, but today, a benchmark level of profitability that you could consider to be appropriate?
A. I think if they had say for instance, 75 percent profit over, it only cost them about 25 percent to produce to the public, it should be curtailed.
Q. What rate of return should the average shareholder in the average utility should be able to expect? What kind of percentage return per year on an investment should they expect?
A. I feel that it ought to be a moderate expectation.
Q. And what range would that be in percentage? 1 percent? 2 percent? 3 percent? 4 percent? 5 percent? 6 percent? 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13?
A. Let's say, for instance, that they were getting something like five percent and if you increased it, say, three percent instead of being six percent, that would be fine.
Q. So you would take where we are now as being reasonably fair or you do think there is too much profit --
A. I would have to look at the statistics first before I can make a decision on that and then compare it with the concerns of the people. And then if their profits are beyond that substantially, then I think there ought to be a recourse.
Q. If you were to do your research and you were to find that the average rate of return for utilities in the United States was, let's say, nine percent and that would be in the utilities in South Carolina, let's say, at eight percent and they asked for a rate hike to get them to nine and the public

Printed Page 2713 . . . . . Thursday, February 24, 1994

was in, perhaps, a recessionary period, times were tight, times were tough, and they were against the hike, what would your decision be?
A. I think that the utilities should wait until the economy picked up before they --
Q. Is there a down side to that approach, Doctor Lambert, to making them wait?
A. Not if they were making a profit that would sustain them their costs, keep them in operation to produce. I wouldn't think so, no.
Q. Where does the capital for utilities come from, Doctor Lambert? Where does the money to build plants and run utility operations come from?
A. Well, some of it is subsidized by the federal government at the state level and also it comes from the revenues that they receive from the public.
Q. Where does other dollars come from? The shareholder, I guess, is what --
A. Right.
Q. -- is the concern is that I'm looking for. At what point do you run off shareholders from an investment if the rate is too low?
A. At what point do you what now?
Q. Is there a point where you can make shareholders go to some other type of investment if the rate of return is too low?
A. I don't think the shareholders would go to other type investments if they were told at that time by the utility departments that it wouldn't be advisable to go up and take away from those that can't afford to pay.

I think if we had reasonable shareholders and I'm sure that in their household, it would be like anybody else's household. They would have somebody in there that would be on a fixed income, deal with them and be on an average income, I believe that they would understand.
Q. Doctor Lambert, are there restrictions placed on you by federal law in terms of campaigning for this office?
A. No, sir.
Q. I note, Mr. Chairman, that Doctor Lambert received a Purple Heart in Vietnam, I believe.
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Service Medal from Vietnam?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Combat Infantryman Badge, the Vietnam Campaign Medal. You were in Vietnam from 1966 until 1968; is that correct?
A. It was the early part of '67 to '68.
Q. You also served in the Army until 1972; is that correct?

Printed Page 2714 . . . . . Thursday, February 24, 1994

A. That's correct.
Q. What was your service after 1968 in the Army?
A. I was in the National Guard.
Q. And that was located stateside here in South Carolina?
A. Yes, sir. Georgetown.
Q. Mr. Chairman, that's all my questions.
THE CHAIRMAN: Doctor, you were in the Vietnam War?
A. Yes, sir.
THE CHAIRMAN: In what year? '66?
A. I think it was the early part of '67. I don't know exactly. Did I put --
THE CHAIRMAN: That's all right. What outfit were you with?
A. I was with the 57th Air Cavalry Unit.
THE CHAIRMAN: Air Cavalry?
A. Yes, sir.
THE CHAIRMAN: Ya'll were stationed where?
A. Our base camp was Nha-Trang (phonetic).
THE CHAIRMAN: Where?
A. Nha-Trang. I don't know if you understand Vietnamese terminology.
THE CHAIRMAN: I'm just trying to figure -- '66. I'm just sitting here trying to figure in '66 what campaign was going on. Was that --
MR. COUICK: The Tet.
A. Well, --
THE CHAIRMAN: Is that -- that was before?
A. During that time they had what they called Americal (phonetic) Division and they had -- the city of Wey (phonetic) which was under attack and I was in that campaign, too.
THE CHAIRMAN: This was before the Tet offensive, wasn't it?
A. No, the Tet offensive was going on.
THE CHAIRMAN: Going on. Any other questions from any members of the committee? I was just -- Representative Wilkes.
EXAMINATION BY REPRESENTATIVE WILKES:
Q. Doctor Lambert, first of all, I applaud you for your obvious success in the military and I'm particularly happy that you came up here to talk with us today, but I do have a question and a concern about your being able to maintain two jobs, possibly three jobs at the same time.

I just did a little simple math and given the days that Mr. Couick has outlined that you would have to come to Columbia as a commissioner, with driving time between here and Georgetown, it's going to run about 30 hours a week and take Tuesdays, Wednesdays and Thursdays which

Printed Page 2715 . . . . . Thursday, February 24, 1994

would leave you only four days a week with the Post Office, Saturday, Sunday, Monday and Friday.

To get in a full time 40-hour week at the Post Office, you'd probably have to work four tens. Would they allow you to do that? Would you work on Sundays?
A. No, I don't work on Sunday.
Q. So that leaves you three days in which to get 40 hours. I'm not trying to give you a hard time, but I do want you to understand that this is essentially is full time job.
A. Right.
Q. And I find the logistics of how you would work that out bothers me a little bit. I wish you would maybe expound on that just a little bit for the committee.
A. Well, it's a possibility like I stated before is that if I am informed in advance, I can put it for annual leave and they approve it and allow me to go. But it would be difficult for me if I was not informed in advance. But I don't think there would be a problem for me to use leave.
Q. Even if the commission were to meet three days a week here in Columbia every week all year long?
A. Well, I guess that would -- it would present a problem.
Q. Well, if it were to become a problem, how would you deal with that? Would you leave your job at the Post Office and give up your retirement or would you just not be able to attend the meetings here in Columbia? I mean there would have to be some way to reconcile that and, again, I'm just trying to figure out for you how you might accomplish that.
A. Well, if I couldn't work it out with them, I would have to resign. I'm going to be honest with you.
Q. You would have to resign?
A. I would have to resign.
Q. As a commissioner?
A. Right. I would have to.
Q. So in other words the job at the Post Office would be your first priority?
A. It would have to be.
Q. And you're building, I assume, retirement there?
A. That's correct.
Q. And are vested and need to get additional years in order to fully qualify for your Post Office retirement?
A. That's correct.
Q. Thank you.
THE CHAIRMAN: Any other questions?

Printed Page 2716 . . . . . Thursday, February 24, 1994

SENATOR JACKSON: Just one.
THE CHAIRMAN: Senator Jackson.
EXAMINATION BY SENATOR JACKSON:
Q. Doctor Lambert, where did you attend undergraduate school?
A. Where did I attend?
Q. Yes, sir.
A. Bethany Seminary.
Q. And what degree did you get?
A. I got the master's degree in education and religious education.
Q. What about the undergraduate degree?
A. I got it there, too. It was in religion.
Q. And what was that?
A. It was in religion.
Q. Okay.
A. Religious Education.
Q. And then you went to La Salle Law School?
A. No, the La Salle was entirely different. That was a correspondence course.
Q. Okay. Thank you.
THE CHAIRMAN: Doctor, we may as well tell you, I think we should give you this information. Serving on the Public Service Commission is considered a full time job. It's five days a week. There might only be hearings three days a week, but there would be commission business going on, I understand, every day. It necessitates you being present. So you might want to think about that. It's considered a full time job. No exceptions. Any other questions? Thank you so much, Doctor.
A. You're quite welcome.

PERSONAL DATA QUESTIONNAIRE SUMMARY

1. Dr. Ervin E. Lambert

Home Address: Business Address:

133 Rose Avenue 1101 Highmarket Street

Georgetown, SC 29440 Georgetown, SC 29440

2. He was born in Georgetown, SC on November 8, 1945.

Social Security Number: ***-**-****.

3. S.C. Driver's License Number: *********;

S.C. Voter's Registration Number: 0426268.

Printed Page 2717 . . . . . Thursday, February 24, 1994

4. He is single and has no children.

5. Military service: U.S. Army, Rank E5, Honorably Discharged in 1972. (Purple Heart, National Defense Service Medal, Air Medal, Combat Infantryman Badge, Vietnam Campaign Medal, Vietnam Service Medal, 2 O/S Bars)

6. He received a L.L.B. from La Salle Law School in 1979, a M.R.E. from Bethany Theological Seminary in 1990, and a D.C.C. from Bethany Theological Seminary in 1992.

7. He has been a notary public since April 6, 1989.

9. From 1973 to present, he has worked for the Postal Service.

19. From 1973 to present, he has worked for the Postal Service

26. Professional organizations: APWU Local 1796 (president); United Christian Church & Ministerial Association (minister).

27. Civic, charitable, etc. organizations:Georgetown Pentecostal Holiness Church.

29. Five letters of reference:

(a) Don Marlowe

P.O. Box 1566

Georgetown, SC

(803) 546-4536

(b) Lucille Young

508 Santee Drive

Georgetown, SC 29440

(803) 527-4194

1804 Church Street

Georgetown, SC 29440

(803) 546-3978

(d) Mrs. Louise Brown

NationsBank

P.O. Box 439

Georgetown, SC 29440

(803) 546-6145

Printed Page 2718 . . . . . Thursday, February 24, 1994

(e) Mr. Joe Canteen

Rt. 3, Box 441A

Georgetown, SC 29440

(803) 546-3884

30. Sixth District.

MR. COUICK: We'll go ahead and swear you in.
ROBERT WALTER HUNDLEY, having been duly sworn, testified and deposed as follows:
MR. HUNDLEY - EXAMINATION BY MR. COUICK:
Q. Mr. Chairman, I'm reviewing Mr. Hundley's driver's license. He lives at 3050 Jackson Drive, Orangeburg, South Carolina, 29115. Mr. Hundley's voter registration indicates that he lives at 132 Orange Parrish, Northwest, Orangeburg, South Carolina, 29115.

Mr. Hundley, which of these is the correct address?
A. The voter registration address.
Q. Am I correct that's in Orangeburg County?
A. That's correct.
Q. Thank you. Mr. Hundley, have you had an opportunity to review your summary of your Personal Data Questionnaire?
A. Yes, I have.
Q. Is it correct?
A. There were two minor deviations, one with my daughter's age and the other -- I've forgot it. It was just a numerical change.
Q. Subject to that being corrected, would you object to that being entered into the record of these proceedings?
A. No, sir.
Q. Thank you. Mr. Hundley, you have had involvement with a regulated utility or its parent company, Bell South Corporation, for approximately 28 years, from 1961 to 1989. Are you now retired from Bell South?
A. Yes, I am.
Q. During that period of time, did you accumulate stocks or other interest that continue on? And if so, what would be your decision should you be elected as to those security interests?
A. I did accumulate such securities and at the present time, they're in a management saving trust over which I have no control. Should I be elected to the commission, I think the proper thing to do would be to either put them in a blind trust or to dispose of the -- the trust that they're

Printed Page 2719 . . . . . Thursday, February 24, 1994

in now, you can select alternate investments, so I could put them in a bond fund or some other type of funds that would not be a conflict.
Q. Do you draw a pension from Bell South?
A. Yes, I do.
Q. Would that in any way you think lead to questions about your impartiality on rate cases?
A. I would certainly hope not. Of course, I'm a private citizen now and I think we're going to have to all look for the next ten years to deregulation probably more so than regulation.

And in line with that, we're going to have to ensure that we have adequate competition to go along with the deregulation. I can't see any case that the pension would in any way effect my decision.
Q. What were your responsibilities with Bell South?
A. I was in charge of -- as a matter of fact, I organized the security organization in South Carolina when Bell South first started security in 1961. And I went from there to Florida and Florida back to Georgia. I handled the security operations for each one of those states as well as the claims operation in Georgia and Florida.

Also while I was in Florida, I had occasion to deal with the Florida Legislature for approximately three years assisting in legislative matters and attending committee meetings, et cetera.
Q. Have you ever participated in a presentation of a rate case or similar type case to a Public Service Commission?
A. No, I have not. I've sat in on them, but I've never participated.
Q. Prior to going with Bell South, you were employed, I believe, by the Federal Bureau of Investigation; is that correct?
A. That is correct.
Q. And you were with them for how many years?
A. I went with the FBI in 1959 and left when I went with Bell South or Southern Bell in 1961.
Q. And prior to that, you were affiliated with the US Air Force, I believe?
A. Yes, that's right.
Q. And retired there or was discharged as a captain. Mr. Hundley, you have a law degree. Do you practice law actively now?
A. No, I do not.
Q. If you were to be elected, would you have any other business or professional responsibilities aside from service on the Public Service Commission?
A. No, I don't, Mr. Couick. As a matter of fact, I have no business commitments and I have an abundance of free time.

Printed Page 2700, Feb. 24 | Printed Page 2720, Feb. 24

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