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In fact, many -- those of you in the Legislature will be seeing a bill coming up this year hopefully in the House and Senate that is going to allow for $1 voluntarily contribution when someone gets or renews their license --
Q. Check off --
A. -- to be used for educational process through DHEC and that's the bill that I've worked on.
Q. Why did you leave the foundation?
A. Well, I'm still working in the foundation in Lifebridge Foundation is an extension of it. There were some other things that needed to be done that couldn't have been done through that particular agency.
Q. That's not a full time job?
A. No, not really.
Q. That's all I have, Mr. Chairman.
SENATOR COURTNEY: Mr. Chairman.
THE CHAIRMAN: Senator Courtney.
EXAMINATION BY MR. COURTNEY:
Q. Mr. Ingram, you seem to have a pretty good knowledge of terms concerning the PSC and some of the issues also. Did you take it upon yourself to educate yourself about these things? I mean, you know what wheeling is and construction in progress and things like that. How did you come about knowing these things?
A. Well, I'm sure I don't know all that I need to know or all that I would want to know, but I have been preparing for this for about six years now. Two years before the last term, watching rate increases, knowing something about water and sewer rates and how that effects people, watching the evolution of the bus system in Columbia, the people who are dependent on it and watching bus fares go up, I just decided to take it upon myself to begin studying these issues because I was very involved in

I worked on that off and on for about two years and during the last process decided to run for Public Service Commission knowing that I did not have much of a chance of winning. At that time, I began studying exactly what went on with the Public Service --
Q. How did you study? Where do you come upon the information and --
A. I looked up old transcripts, South Carolina Code of Laws, what the duties are, what the responsibilities are, began researching old newspaper articles. I subscribed to numerous utility publications, Public Utility Fortnight, Coal Outlook, some of them whose names are about as original as those, Natural Gas and Generation. Again, studying them just on my own at my own time and own expense.

Ran for Public Service Commission. Gained a lot of knowledge from that run. Was soundly defeated and decided I'd do it again in four more years. I took it upon myself to learn as much as I could in those four years and to reenter the University under the Master's of Public Administration Program to give myself a background and a basis in modern public administration, policy and procedure.
Q. And how much more time do you think you'll have before receiving your master's degree?
A. Probably about another a year to a year and a half depending on what type of schedule I'm able to maintain.
Q. You're to be commended for your efforts and I thank you.
THE CHAIRMAN: Any other questions? Representative Wilkes.
REEXAMINATION BY REPRESENTATIVE WILKES:
Q. Mr. Ingram, what is Heritage, Inc.?
A. That was a wine and beverage distribution company.
Q. So you were in that business for quite a while in sales?
A. Pretty much so. For several years.
Q. Thank you?
THE CHAIRMAN: Any another questions?
EXAMINATION BY REPRESENTATIVE KENNEDY:
Q. I would just like to ask Mr. Ingram, have you ever attended a Public Service Commission meeting?
A. Yes, sir.
THE CHAIRMAN: Any other questions? You may be excused.

1. Clayton B. Ingram

Home Address: Business Address

1215 Harvey Street 1215 Harvey Street

Columbia, SC 29201 Columbia, SC 29201

2. He was born in Cheraw, South Carolina on June 29, 1961.

Social Security Number: ***-**-****.

3. S.C. Driver's License Number: *********.

S.C. Voter Registration Number: 2 561 837.

4. He was married to Valerie E. Rose on September 22, 1985.
He has one child: Dillon Townsend Ingram, age 3.

6. He graduated from Cheraw High School in 1979. He then attended the University of South Carolina and graduated in May 1983 with a Bachelor of Arts in Journalism, specifically Advertising and Public Relations. He is currently enrolled in the University of South Carolina's Master of Public Administration program.

7. He has not held public office.

8. He ran as a candidate for Public Service Commissioner for the Second District in 1990.

9. He was managing partner in charge of business operations at John Barleycorn, Inc. from June 1984 until June 1986. He worked in sales and marketing at Ben Arnold Co. from August 1986 until February 1987; at Columbia Distributing Corp. from February 1987 until May 1988; at Heritage, Inc. from January 1989 until January 1992. He has been employed with the South Carolina Organ Procurement Agency since January 1993.

Mr. Ingram amended his response to this question after the original deadline by adding that he has left his last employer, the South Carolina Organ Procurement Agency. He has since served as director of The Lifebridge Foundation of South Carolina, Inc., a non-profit educational foundation dedicated to increasing public awareness on the need for organ and tissue donation in South Carolina.

14. In the 1980's, he was sued in small claims court for the loss of a rocking chair and ordered to pay $50.

19. He was employed as a part-time page in the South Carolina Senate from 1980 to 1983.

27. Civic, charitable, etc. organizations:Member, Blythewood Presbyterian Church; Earlewood Community of Citizens Organization; Columbia Council of Neighborhoods; Columbia Crime Prevention Committee; City of Columbia Mini-Grants Committee; Columbia Chamber of Commerce; Project L.I.F.E.; Midlands Organ Transplant Support Group; SC Liver Association;
Chairman, Columbia Community Development Week (1991, 1992).

29. Five letters of reference:

(a) Terri Purvis

Customer Service, NBSC

P.O. Box 1457

Columbia, SC 29202-1457

(803) 256-6300

(b) Martha Cross Sexton

Minister, Blythewood Presbyterian Church

P.O. Box 664

Blythewood, SC 29016

(803) 735-9896

(c) Julie Tanner

64 Darlington Avenue

Charleston, SC

(803) 723-6124

(d) John Fling

2916 River Drive

Columbia, SC 29201

(803) 360-5646

(e) Ed Harmon

800 Fontana Ave.

West Columbia, SC 29169

(803) 739-2169

MR. COUICK: This is the last one, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. Chairman, I received from James Felder a letter which we have distributed to the committee members indicating his determination to withdraw his candidacy. He also attaches some correspondence from the Supreme Court that was of some interest to the committee.
THE CHAIRMAN: His name will not even be listed.
MR. COUICK: Yes, sir, with his formal request, it would not be.
SENATOR JACKSON: Mr. Chairman, I ask to be excused for the rest of the day. Thank you.
MR. COUICK: Mr. Mitchell, if you would raise your right hand.
RUDOLPH MITCHELL, having been duly sworn, testified as follows:
MR. MITCHELL - EXAMINATION BY MR. COUICK:
Q. Mr. Mitchell, I'm reviewing your driver's license. It indicates that you're at Route 1, Box 152, Saluda, South Carolina, 29138; is that correct?
A. That's true. Yes, sir.
Q. And I also see that your voter registration card indicates the same address?
A. Yes.
Q. That would be in Saluda County?
A. Saluda County, right.
Q. Yes, sir. Thank you. Mr. Chairman, we have reviewed his -- Mr. Mitchell's credit report and also his SLED report. Both are negative. There are no negative entries on either one.

Mr. Mitchell, you have served on the Public Service Commission for a number of years.
A. Yes, sir.
Q. What do you hope to accomplish if you are to be reelected the next term? What unfinished goals do you have?
A. Mr. Couick, I want to first say if I may that I appreciate the opportunity of serving the citizens of South Carolina as a member of the Public Service Commission and that I have -- one of my main ambitions on the commission was to serve with -- in a manner that would bring integrity and character to the commission, gain the confidence of the people of South Carolina. I think that's very, very important. I have served in a way that I hope we have accomplished that.

I want to continue to serve because I feel like I have been beneficial to the people of the state. The regulatory process is -- there is a fine line to

So that is what I want to continue to do, continue to serve in a way that will bring integrity to the Public Service Commission. And in so doing it would gain -- continue to gain the confidence of the consumers and the people of South Carolina.
Q. Mr. Mitchell, what one or two major concerns or problems do you anticipate that you're going to have to confront in the next several years on the commission?
A. Well, there is a great, great, great change, Mr. Couick, in the telecommunications. I don't see that quite that much change in the electric utilities. Quite a bit of change in the water utilities. Many, many federal regulations that are coming down. It's going to create many, many problems for the smaller water utilities in the state.

But I feel that the changes that we might could make are to the water utilities. As you probably know by state code, smaller water utilities, 10,000 customers or less, the hearings can be held by a three-member panel. It was an act of the Legislature, but I feel that if this could be amended and maybe change that back, so that the full commission -- our work load has -- is not quite as heavy as it once was in the seventies.

When that act was passed in the seventies, we had the oil embargo, inflation was running at 10 to 15 percent and utilities were coming in practically every year for a rate increase and the act was passed so that we could spread out, so that three members could hold hearings. But inflation is down now and we're not having quite as many rate increases, so I think it would satisfy the people in the water utility or their customers that if the full panel of seven members would hear these cases and we would like to see that changed from "shall be three" to "may be three" is one change which I think it would really help the situation.
Q. Mr. Mitchell, Southern Bell had noted some time back that they did not anticipate in the foreseeable future asking for another rate increase. As you just noted, rate requests tend to be further and further between. At what point is it appropriate for the Public Service Commission even without a rate increase to inquire as to the profitability of a regulated utility?
A. Well, Mr. Couick, the commission did instigate incentive regulation and we moved into that area and allowed Bell and a few other utilities to do that. Of course, this was -- as you probably know, it was carried to

And so we -- it's a possibility I think that that might -- state statute might be -- state law might be initiated with that.
Q. Mr. Mitchell, my question kind of goes on the other side of that issue. It's to the question of, if someone is making money and they're not complaining, namely a regulated utility, perhaps the reason they're not complaining is their cost of delivering services has gone done significantly because technology has allowed them to cut costs.

If they don't apply for a rate increase, there would typically be no PSC oversight of that rate base. It would just on and on ad infinitum. When is it appropriate for the PSC to inquire --
A. I see --
Q. -- into a level of profitability of that company?
A. I understand. We have that situation. Our auditors make regular audits of the utilities that we represent, checking and see their rate of return. And we do have some utilities now earning over their allowed rate of return.

We give them a chance to be heard on the matter. If they don't, if it's not a satisfactory explanation given and we see what -- maybe they haven't made a certain expenditure, we will sure call them in and lower that rate of return and bring it back down.
Q. Have you done that?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Who have you done that with?
A. We've done it with several of them. We've ordered several of the smaller telephone companies to, Freddie Pott and Pond Branch and several of the smaller telephone companies now. Southern Bell right at the present are earning over their rate of return.
Q. Have you ordered Southern Bell back in?
A. We are in process, yes, sir.
Q. Let me ask you a question about Bell South or Southern Bell. Several years ago, the Public Service Commission heard a request from Southern Bell to allow it to include a fiberoptic rebuild in its rate base to go out and replace its copper coaxial delivery lines or service lines with fiberoptic.

From a consumer standpoint, should that person in Saluda County who only uses their phone to call their family or perhaps the hairdresser or someone like that have to pay for fiberoptic when that copper coaxial certainly was doing the job fine?
A. Well, we -- Mr. Couick, we're always interested in the utilities upgrading their services. In this case it seems, though, that if they were in Saluda County were receiving good service from the present lines under ground, we -- it would probably be that they shouldn't, but we do like to see a move into the new technologies that are available. And in the long run it brings a better service to all customers concerned.
Q. Yes, sir, but should there be a subsidy of -- by residential customers of service really only used by a small few -- a small percentage of business?
A. I don't think that would be fair to do, I sure don't. Well, it's the same situation now. I think it would be a comparable illustration here in the City of Columbia -- I'm getting off on another utility, but I think it's -- I think that you can see my point.

As you know, South Carolina Electric and Gas operates the bus service here Columbia and Charleston.
Q. Right.
A. They -- it's a losing proposition with them. Some have suggested that we include a small amount in the electric rates to compensate for that lost of all the customers in Saluda County, Aiken County, over that service area which I am strongly opposed to that.

That would be making those customers in South Carolina Electric and Gas pay for something that they have no benefit from. And so I would be opposed to any type of that.
Q. Well, what's the difference between fiberoptic and the bus service then? Why does big industry get the benefit of a subsidy and the bus riders don't?
A. Well, it's just -- I guess moving into a better technology and it's so minimum, I --
Q. Right.
A. -- think that I'd be --
Q. Do you own any utility stock?
A. No, sir.
Q. Does anyone in your family own any utility stock?
A. No, sir, not at all, Mr. Couick.

Have you been -- have you pushed hard for environmental cleanup or have you been generally content to let rates pretty much drive whatever the company's decide to choose as a fuel mix? How would you approach that?
A. Being out in the rural area -- and I might say that I am one of the only members on the commission that represents the agricultural interest of South Carolina being a farmer, and I think that's a great industry of South Carolina. I'm proud to, so that I can speak up for that industry.

We in agriculture certainly are concerned about the environment, the water and all that. I would say that I have stressed that very strongly in all of our deliberations to keep our water clean and keep the environment free of acid rain as much as possible in all the things that pollute our area.
Q. How about on siting decisions, Mr. Mitchell?
A. Excuse me.
Q. On generation plant siting decisions?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. I understand the Public Service Commission has independent authority to require environmental audits and insure that the environmental impact is as negligible as possible. What have you done in that area?
A. Well, we have always stressed that all of the agencies when we have a siting act -- when the utility files for a new place for a new generation

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