Journal of the House of Representatives
of the First Session of the 111th General Assembly
of the State of South Carolina
being the Regular Session Beginning Tuesday, January 10, 1995
Page Finder Index
| Printed Page 3590, May 17
| Printed Page 3610, May 18
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Printed Page 3600 . . . . . Thursday, May 18,
1995
MR. BAILEY: Let me follow up, Ms. Bloom. I'm sure you heard what Mr. Chairman
said. You surely can send a letter out to everybody just letting them know that
you have been through screening.
A: Okay.
MR. BAILEY: But, you are a candidate seeking re-election. That you cannot
solicit votes but you want to let them know that you are running for
re-election.
A: Oh, I realize that.
MR. BAILEY: But in your letter a copy of your attendance record. That's
important.
A: All right.
MR. BAILEY: Might surprise you.
A: Thank you.
THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you Ms. Bloom, you're free to go.
A: Am I? Thank you so much.
THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you. Would you get Mr. Hinton for us, please? (speaking
to the Sergeant)
(OFF THE RECORD)
THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Hinton, if you would just have a seat there and make yourself
comfortable, please. Mr. Hinton, we we're going to need to ask you some
questions, some formal questions that we ask everybody and then once we finish
with that we'll open the floor for any of the members of the committee may have
some questions for you. It should be very simple and as I said before, I don't
intend to put you through fire or anything like that but we do need to ask the
necessary questions. Before I begin, I need to put you under oath. Would you
raise your right hand for me please, sir?
MR. HINTON, being duly sworn testifies as follows:
PERSONAL DATA QUESTIONNAIRE SUMMARY
1. James H. Hinton
Home Address:
5 Sedgewood Court
N. Augusta, SC 29841
2. He was born 10/19/32 in Baltimore, Md. He is presently 62 years old.
Social Security #: ***-**-****.
Printed Page 3601 . . . . . Thursday, May 18,
1995
5. He was married on 6/28/58 to Sara Margaret Harper Hinton. They have two
children, Margaret Ellen Hinton Harper - age 33 and Henry Edward Hinton - age
31.
7. Education: Norman Park College, Norman Park, Ga. 1950-52. Auburn Univ.,
Auburn, Ala. 1952-1954 - BSChE. Auburn Univ., Auburn, Ala. 1954-1955 -
MSChE
9. Organizations: Boy Scouts - Scout Master, etc. Presbyterian Church USA -
Deacon and Elder
10. Chronological review of employment history:1956-1989, DuPont, Savannah
River Plant. 1989-1994, Westinghouse SRP.
21. Five (5) names of references: Rodney Ingle, Security Federal, N.
Augusta; Perjetta K. Smith; R.M. Smith; Charles I. Goodwin; Rodney W.
Scherr; Joanne S. Folger; Mim Woodring.
MR. HINTON BEING EXAMINED BY MR. COURTNEY:
Q: Mr. Hinton, do you or any member of your family own or operate any business
which contracts with the State or Federal government?
A: No, we do not.
Q: Do you or any member of your family operate any business which receives funds
from the Consumer Affairs?
A: No, we do not.
Q: Have you ever been arrested, charged or held by any Federal or State law
enforcement authority for violation of any State or Federal or local law?
A: No, sir.
Q: Have you, to your knowledge, ever been under a Federal, State or local
investigation for possible violations of criminal statutes?
A: No, I have not.
Q: Have you ever been disciplined or cited for breach of ethics for
unprofessional conduct by any court, agency association or professional
group?
A: No, I have not.
Q: Are you now or have you ever been employed as a lobbyist or acting in the
capacity as a lobbyist principal?
A: No, sir.
Q: Do you know of any other legal reason why you might have difficulty
performing the duties of this elected position?
Printed Page 3602 . . . . . Thursday, May 18,
1995
A: No, I haven't.
Q: Mr. Hinton, we have your application and information that you have provided
and it is certainly impressive, and we would like to give you some time now
to tell us about yourself and what you... why you're interested in the
Consumer Affairs Commission and how you feel like you could contribute to
that and serve the people of South Carolina.
A: Well, it was interesting, the notice came out in our local weekly newspaper
and I had heard that there was such a commission but I knew nothing about the
commission and started asking questions from various people in our area and
the Chamber of Commerce, our newspaper editor and so forth, and just got real
interested in it. As I gathered information on the commission and found out
what it did for the citizens of South Carolina. And then I thought that
well, my background and experience as an engineer for approximately
thirty-eight years and my work with volunteer, civic and religious
organizations, I felt that I was qualified and would be able to impact with
new ideas on the committee. I also, in talking with people in my community,
I found out that there was not very many of them that knew what the
commission did for them or could do for them. I mentioned the Chamber of
Commerce was no help, the local library was no help, the secretary of our
delegation was no help, so... and even talking... I just mentioned talking to
my friends and acquaintances and people I work with, they really did not know
how the commission could help them in consumer complaints. I even went to
the telephone directory and could not find a telephone number for them. Even
the new directory that came out this week does not have a listing for the
Consumer Affairs Commission under the State of South Carolina departments.
It does have a number at the very beginning which was not in there
previously. So as I continued the research I also found out that there are
nine members of the commission, one of which is the Secretary of State.
However, seven of those nine members come from the Columbia area to the
northwest of the state. In other words, there's three in Greenville, one in
Anderson, one's out of Columbia, the Secretary of State, I believe, is listed
as Chapin and then Camden. There's one from Moncks Corner and one from
Hartsville, so we're skewed distribution if you're concerned about
distribution. We're in... I'm in North Augusta on a border community where
most of the people in North Augusta do their business with... for goods and
services out of Augusta, Georgia. So I was interested to try to find out how
you
Printed Page 3603 . . . . . Thursday, May 18,
1995
could bring that together if we had a consumer complaint across the state line
and I have not been able to answer that question. I also found out that most of
the members... I take that back. I think that six of the nine members of the
commission are primarily concerned with providing consumer goods or services.
I'm not exactly sure about two of them who I was told are semi-retired. Now I
don't know what semi-retired means, but, in other words, it looked like we're
skewed not only geographically but skewed towards the people in business that
are providers of goods and services and we don't have good representation for
those people on the borders of the state, on the southeast or the coastal area
of the state and for those people that are primarily receivers of goods and
services. So with that and my experiences as an engineer, I felt that I would
make a good representative on the commission and that that would be a more...
make it a more diverse commission and I'll say that with my experience as an
engineer I have been able to resolve some of the complaints myself by knowing
the technical background of the issue on personal problems I've had with
services and goods. So, with all that, I felt that I would... or someone with
my background, not necessarily me, but someone with a technical background and
someone that was primarily a receiver of goods and services would make a good
addition to the commission.
Q: Mr. Hinton, obviously you've done homework as far as members of the
commission are concerned and all and about the commission. What did you see
the purpose of the Consumer Affairs Commission to be?
A: Well, the Consumer Affairs Commission is... well, the commissioners are the
policy making group as I understand it. The Secretary of the State is the
permanent member of the commission and there's four that's elected by the...
or appointed by the Governor with agreement with the senate and then there's
four that's appointed by the senate, I think, the way it is.
Q: Your engineering background with a lot of technicalities, I can tell. Aside
from the numbers and so forth, why do we need the Consumer Affairs agency? I
guess that's what I'm asking.
A: Well, the Consumer Affairs agency as I recall from reading about it is they
have the advocacy group which has to do with the consumer complaints and they
represent the citizens with the rate with the public service authority.
Whether it be electricity, water or whatever. And also there is a legal
group that, if I remember correctly, that reviews the complaints and, if
necessary, they
Printed Page 3604 . . . . . Thursday, May 18,
1995
investigate they try to resolve, if they can't resolve then they help the
people with their legal actions.
Q: Do you feel like it's an honest job from what you know about it?
A: From what I've seen, I've seen the 1993 annual report. Very impressive. One
of the things I found in there, there was ninety-seven complaints from Aiken
County. I didn't see any from North Augusta, but there were ninety-seven
complaints from Aiken County, all of which I think were resolved
satisfactorily.
Q: Do the members of the commission have any questions?
MR. HINTON BEING EXAMINED BY MS. WHIPPLE:
Q: I see you've been a Boy Scout Master for twenty-five years?
A: Approximately twenty-five years. Two years after I came out of college I was
Scout Master for about twelve years and then because of my age of my children
I dropped out for about three or four years and then was... continued for
another twelve years.
Q: It seems that you've been very conscientious in your commitment to your
community organizations and you feel that you'd be able to bring that same
kind of commitment to this?
A: Yes, I feel like that I... I don't want to get involved with something I
can't devote my full attention to and do the best of my ability. Whether
it's civic organization or with my church or even with my former employer.
If I couldn't do the best job I could I don't want to undertake it. And I do
have the time now to devote to something like this commission. I understand
that it meets Tuesdays, second Tuesday of the month, I believe, is the way
that it was stated.
THE CHAIRMAN: Any other questions?
Response: None
THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Hinton, we appreciate your willingness to
offer your time to this agency and appreciate your coming here today and
answering the questions for us. We will file a report after several days,
decide whose qualified and if qualified, we don't anticipate any problems
finding you qualified. But, you need to understand that you cannot seek
commitments from anyone in the House or the Senate until the report has been
filed on the floor of the House and the Senate. You can certainly meet people
and introduce yourself to the members of the general assembly, write a letter
if you want to stating that you are a candidate and that you have been through
screening but the report hasn't come out yet. You cannot ask for any kind of
support or any commitment from anyone until that report is filed on the floor.
Okay? Do you have any questions you would like to ask of us?
Printed Page 3605 . . . . . Thursday, May 18,
1995
A: No. You said there's a letter will come out in the next two or three days,
is that...
THE CHAIRMAN: The report of the commitment will come out in
the next several days. We'll do that as quick as we can but we don't know
just yet when that will be. But you... I'm just telling you you can write a
letter if you feel like you would like to do so to the members of the general
assembly introducing yourself to them, giving them your background or resume
or whatever you'd like to do. You're certainly welcome to meet the members of
the general assembly and introduce yourself to the, but you cannot ask anyone
to commit to vote for you or to support you until the report from the
committee has to be filed on the floor of the House and the Senate.
A: Then I will be notified of that?
THE CHAIRMAN: Just as soon as we have it, we'll notify you of it and when it
will be introduced on the floor.
A: Okay. Very good. Well, thank you very much.
THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you. The next is Mr. Lesselbaum.
(OFF THE RECORD)
THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Lesselbaum, if you'll have a seat right there for me.
A: Yes, sir.
THE CHAIRMAN: Want to welcome you with us today and...
A: Thank you, sir.
THE CHAIRMAN: And thank you for your willingness to serve and providing us with
information that you have. And also your admission that you're a "Damned
Yankee", I believe is the way you termed it in your letter here.
A: Two words now though, not one.
THE CHAIRMAN: And though you say you have the accent that you are or consider
yourself a South Carolinian.
A: Yes, sir.
THE CHAIRMAN: We have some formal questions that we have to ask you as we do
the other candidates.
A: Yes, sir.
THE CHAIRMAN: Then we'll open the floor for any questions by members of the
committee. And before I begin questioning, I need to put you under oath, would
you raise your right hand for me, please, sir.
MR. LESSELBAUM, being duly sworn testifies as follows:
Printed Page 3606 . . . . . Thursday, May 18,
1995
PERSONAL DATA QUESTIONNAIRE SUMMARY
1. Harold R. Lesselbaum
Home Address:
1829 Senate Street, Apt. 16-D
Columbia, South Carolina 29201
2. He was born 12/18/19 in Newark, New Jersey. He is presently 75 years old.
Social Security #: ***-**-****.
5. He was married 7/31/42 to Muriel Schulman Lesselbaum. They have one
child, Judith Maziar, age 50. She is a school teacher is Atlanta.
6. Military Service: Enlisted April 1942 - Army corps of Engineers. Corporal
- Serial # 12064042. Certified disability, Honorable Discharge 10/18/43
7. Education: B.S. Forestry, Univ. of Ga., June 1941. He was awarded a
certificate in surveying given in an Engineering, Science and Defense
training course at Wake Forest College.
8. PUBLIC SERVICE: Member permanent advisory Council of SC State Development
Board - 11/86 - 7/88. President of Williamsburg County Health Planning
commission (Physician Recruitment) 15 years. Member of Town of Kingstree
zoning Board of Appeals - 2 years. Member of Town of Kingstree
Beautification Committee. Past President of Temple Beth of Kingstree.
Former member and director of Kingstree Chamber of Commerce.
9. Organizations: Kingstree Masonic Lodge. Past Deputy Dist. Governor Lions
Inter. Score volunteer. Treas. for friends of the Library of Kingstree.
Publicity chairman for Williamsburg Co. unit American Cancer Society.
Currently secretary for State Legislative Committee AARP. Vice Pres. for
Heritage Homeowners Assoc. Board of Directors.
10. CHRONOLOGICAL REVIEW OF EMPLOYMENT HISTORY:Florida Forest service -
1941. US Corps of Engineers in Charleston, SC - 1942. District
Forester, SC Forest Service in Florence and Kingstree. Partner in Lane
Lumber Co. (Lumber Mfg.), Lane, SC. Partner in Williamsburg Bldg.
Supply Co. for 38
Printed Page 3607 . . . . . Thursday, May 18,
1995
years in Kingstree, SC. Salesman for Real Estate - McGill Agency in Kingstree,
SC for 8 years.
19. Additional information that should be disclosed in connection with
consideration of your nomination for this position:He is a member of the
Ford Dispute Settlement Board (Charlotte District) and they arbitrate
consumer complaints against Ford Motor Co.
21. Five (5) letters of recommendation: (1) Jim Cherry, Pres. Williamsburg
First National Bank, Kingstree, SC. (2) Herman Mischner, past chairman,
Midlands Chapter of The Service Corps of Retired Executives (SCORE).
(3) Dr. Jim Morris, Dean Emeritus, College of Business Adm., USC
Columbia, SC. (4) Dr. John F. Clark, Joint Energy Committee, Blatt
Bldg., Columbia, SC. (5) Frank Burgdorf, Real Estate Commission
Columbia, SC. (6) Retired Lt. Col. Charles Davis Former member of
Chemistry Dept. Faculty, USC, Columbia, SC.
MR. LESSELBAUM BEING EXAMINED BY MR. COURTNEY:
Q: Mr. Lesselbaum?
A: That's correct.
Q: Mr. Lesselbaum, do you or any member of your family own or operate any
businesses contracting with the State or Federal government?
A: No, sir.
Q: Do you or any member of your family own or operate any business which
receives funds from the Consumer Affairs Commission?
A: No, sir.
Q: Have you ever been arrested, charged or held by Federal, State or other law
enforcement authorities for violation of State or Federal or local laws?
A: No, sir.
Q: Have you, to your knowledge, ever been under Federal, State or local
investigation for possible violations of the criminal statute?
A: No, sir.
Q: Have you ever been disciplined or cited for breach of ethics or
unprofessional conduct by any court, agency, association or professional
group?
A: No, sir.
Q: Are you now or have you ever been employed as a lobbyist or acted in the
capacity of a lobbyist principal?
Printed Page 3608 . . . . . Thursday, May 18,
1995
A: No, sir. I had better interject to keep the record straight. I am a member
of the AARP State Legislative Committee, so I am an unpaid lobbyist.
Q: All right. In that capacity do you attend meetings here in the
legislature?
A: Periodically, to monitor certain bills that would be of benefit to senior
citizens.
Q: Okay. And in that capacity, do you discuss with the members of the
legislature pending legislation, have you done that in the past?
A: I have made some calls, yes, sir, to an individual member of the
legislature.
Q: How long has it been since you've been involved? Has it been recent?
A: About a... a little over a year.
Q: Are you a registered lobbyist?
A: No, sir.
Q: Just a member of the organization?
A: That's right.
Q: Any member of the committee have any other questions about that particular
question?
MR. BAILEY: No, sir. Just for the record, I don't see any conflict there as
long as you're not, you know, registered and not a lobbyist.
A: No, no.
MR. BAILEY: You sure have your right to voice your opinion.
A: Yes, sir.
Q: Can you think of any reasons, any other legal reason why you may have
difficulty performing your duties of this elected position?
A: None whatsoever.
Q: Mr. Lesselbaum, we've been provided with your application and letters of
recommendation and all, but we'd like to hear from you a little bit about
yourself, why you're interested in becoming a member of the Consumer Affairs
Commission, how you think you can contribute to it as it serves the citizens
of South Carolina.
A: Yes, sir. I've covered a good bit of it in my letter that you have. I don't
have to read that again, you've read it, I presume. Or do I read the
statement I have here?
Q: Each of us have that. It refers to a little background about yourself. The
employment you had and what experience you've had you feel would help you in
serving.
A: Well, there's going in setting up this letter to you about my qualifications,
there's something that in afterthought I did overlook
Printed Page 3609 . . . . . Thursday, May 18,
1995
that I want to bring up right now. When I came to South Carolina I started out
in Camden in the district forest office as a forest technician. Soon
thereafter, within the year, a vacancy opened in the Florence District and they
made me district forester in Florence and subsequently the state passed a fire
control act which created a new district office in Kingstree. I put in for that
office mainly because I couldn't find a place to live in Florence at the time
for my wife and eight months old baby. Having been involved as a district
forester one of our aims and purposes is to aid and assist land owners in the
management of their timer and that was my first experience where I was exposed
to certain unethical practices, namely a farmer has a wood lot and he wants to
sell his timber. He doesn't think in terms of a timber cruise or land
examination. A logger comes along and says, "Here, I'll offer you X number
of dollars for this piece of timber." He doesn't know whether he's getting
too much or too little. The forest service would render a service where we
would go in for the land owner or timber owner, make a woodland examination,
give him a report and if he wants to sell his timber we would go in and
selectively mark the trees to be cut so that he's insured of two things, an
accurate estimate of what's he getting, the value he's getting for his timber
and also setting up a sort of sustained yield basis so that maybe his children
or grandchildren down the road will still have timber to cut. So this is my
first experience with something that would be unethical and therefore, I became,
back then, very sympathetic with the consumer. And I felt that has helped me
with all these other things, maybe me to the point where I, myself, am a
consumer so I'm also being kind of selfish, I want the consumer to be protected.
I'm very impressed, I read the legislation or the legislation for the setup of
your department for consumer affairs and I was very impressed. I'm retired, I'm
still involved in some things, as you may have read. I just got back last week,
the Ford Consumer Appeals Board, Charlotte District, where once a month we meet,
a four member board, completely unbiased, no affiliation with Ford Motor
Company, whatsoever. You as a consumer comes in with a complaint against a
dealer or a company. You cannot have any reconciliation. You come before us
and we analyze the thing. The board consists of a Ford dealer, a qualified
automotive expert and two lay persons, or two consumers I should say. I'm one
of the consumers on that board. It is so unbiased if it's a tie vote, if two
vote for the consumer and two against the consumer automatically gets the
decision. On the contrary if the vote
Printed Page 3610 . . . . . Thursday, May 18,
1995
goes to Ford Motor Company, that would have to be unanimous or three to one.
The consumer still has restitution because he could go through litigation.
| Printed Page 3590, May 17
| Printed Page 3610, May 18
|
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