Indicates Matter Stricken
Indicates New Matter

The Senate assembled at 11:00 A.M., the hour to which it stood adjourned and was called to order by the ACTING PRESIDENT, Senator JACKSON.

MEMORANDUM TO:   Clerk of the Senate

Clerk of the House
DATE:               May 3, 1995
SUBJECT:             Transcripts of Hearings

In compliance with the Provisions of Act 119 of 1975, it is respectfully requested that the following information be printed in the Journals of the Senate and the House.

Respectfully submitted,
Eugene C. Stoddard, Chairman

Pursuant to Act 119 of 1975, the Committee to Screen Candidate for Boards of Trustees of State Colleges and Universities was convened to consider the qualifications of candidates seeking to fill certain positions on boards of trustees of the state's colleges and universities. The committee conducts such investigation of each candidate as it deems appropriate and reports its findings to the General Assembly prior to the election. It is not the function of the Committee to recommend one candidate over another or to suggest to the individual legislator for whom to vote. The purpose of the committee is instead to determine whether a candidate is qualified and under the statute, the committee's determination in that regard is not binding upon the General Assembly. The candidates are:

Coastal Carolina University - eights seats by congressional district

Seat 1, 1st District
Clark B. Parker (Myrtle Beach)

Seat 3, 2nd District
Leo Richardson (Columbia)
Oran P. Smith (Columbia)

Seat 5, 3rd District
Payne Barnette, Jr. (Greenwood)
Carey J. Green (Seneca)

Seat 7, 4th District
Elaine W. Marks (Spartanburg)

Seat 9, 5th District
Juli S. Powers (Clio)

Seat 11, 6th District
Fred F. DuBard (Florence)
Seat 13, At Large
Franklin Burroughs (Conway)

Seat 15, At Large
Edwin C. Wall, Jr. (Conway)

Medical University of South Carolina - one seat by congressional district for an unexpired term/1996

Second District
H. Donald McElveen (Columbia)

South Carolina State University - three seats by congressional district and one unexpired term/1997 by congressional district

Seat 1, 1st District
Arnold Collins (Charleston)
Moses A. Wilds, Sr. (Charleston)
George Williams (Conway)

Seat 2, 2nd District
Anthony T. Grant (Columbia)

Seat 4, 4th District
Dr. James L. Bullard (Taylors)
Alphonso Allen (Greenville)

Seat 6, 6th District (unexpired term/1997)
Edwin Givens (Columbia)
Dr. Thomas Wilson (Timmonsville)

The Citadel - one at-large seat
Col. Stephen D. Peper (Mount Pleasant)
Dennis J. Rhoad (Charleston)

Wil Lou Gray Opportunity School - three at large seats and one at large seat for an unexpired term/1997

Four Year Term
Betty Henderson (Greenwood)
Vince Rhodes (West Columbia)
Dr. Louise Scott (Florence)

Two Year Term (unexpired 1997)
Russell Hart (Laurens)

The proceedings taken at Room 433, Blatt Building, Columbia South Carolina, on the 19th day of April, 1994, before Elaine M. Boyd, Certified Court Reporter (ID) and Notary Public in and for the State of South Carolina.

Representative Eugene C. Stoddard, Chairman
Representative Jennings G. McAbee
Representative Curtis B. Inabinett, Secretary
Representative Lanny F. Littlejohn

Senator Addison G. Wilson, Vice-Chairman
Senator Warren K. Giese
Senator Maggie W. Glover
Senator James E. Bryan, Jr.

THE CHAIRMAN:   First thing this morning, we first want to thank you for your desire to serve your fellow man, in particular that the salaries involved are very minimis. Really appreciate it in this day and time that those of you who are responsible and would give your time. Senator Giese.
SENATOR GIESE:   Mr. Chairman, I'd like to move that all those who are unopposed in the essence of time that we dispense with having them appear before the board. Most of them are incumbents, I understand, and have passed this one time before, but I'd like to move that for a --
THE CHAIRMAN: Senator Giese move to exempt screening of those unopposed.
REPRESENTATIVE INABINETT:   Seconded.
THE CHAIRMAN:   Seconded by Representative Inabinett. We've always done this in the past. All in favor say aye, opposed no. The ayes have it. Those of you who are unopposed you may be excused, you may sit through the hearing. We certainly appreciate your attendance.

First on our agenda is Wil Lou Gray Opportunity School. Are these first three unopposed, Kay?
MS. BRADLEY:   All of them.
THE CHAIRMAN:   All unopposed. Well, then, we go next to the Medical University of South Carolina, that was unopposed. Coastal Carolina. Mr. Parker is unopposed. We will hear first from Leo Richardson. If you would please come to the speaker there. State your name, your full name, and your address please.
MR. RICHARDSON:   Leo Richardson, 241 King Charles Road, Columbia.
MR. RICHARDSON - EXAMINATION BY THE CHAIRMAN:
Q.   Mr. Richardson, do you have any health related problems that the screening committee should be made aware of --
A.   No, I don't.
Q.   -- that would prevent you from serving on the board in a full capacity?
A.   None whatsoever.
Q.   Considering your present occupation and other activity, would you be able to attend board meetings on a regular basis?
A.   Absolutely.
Q.   Do you have any interest professionally or personally that present a conflict of interest because of your service on the board?
A.   None whatsoever.
Q.   Do you now hold any public position of honor or trust that if elected to the board would cause a violation of the dual office holding clause of the constitution?
A.   None whatsoever.
THE CHAIRMAN:   Any questions of the gentleman? Mr. -- Representative Inabinett.
EXAMINATION BY REPRESENTATIVE INABINETT:
Q.   Mr. Chairman, I have a question that I might ask most of the candidates. In light of proposed decreases in funding for higher education, what do you feel that you can bring to a college or university board as it relates to budget cuts? What do you think you might be able to do to ease some of the apparent burdens that some colleges and universities feel that they're going to experience as it relates to proposed decreases in funding?
A.   I guess there are a couple things that I would recommend. Number one is that you have the alumni, and I happen to be president of the Morris College National Alumni Association. Also while I was at the University at Buffalo when I organized seven alumni chapters in the state of New York and Washington, D.C. So I have a tremendous -- I feel some experience in organizing alumni.

The other entity I would recommend is that to see we could get some corporate sponsors and see if we can get some philanthropist to assist in our funding. So, I think are any number of things that the board of trustees could do, and I could bring that to the board.
Q.   Thank you.
THE CHAIRMAN:   Any other questions of Mr. Richardson? Senator Wilson.
EXAMINATION BY SENATOR WILSON:
Q.   Mr. Chairman, I want to apologize to Mr. Richardson that I'm late. But an issue that I am very concerned about is a four-year graduation rate, and, unfortunately, Coastal Carolina has one of the lowest in the whole state. And for the interest of the students, for the interest of their parents and for the interest of the taxpayers, I'm very interested in trying to get students through preferably within four years, but certainly as quickly as possible. What would you do to promote that concept?
A.   What I would recommend to the -- to the institution is to develop a mechanism for students when they come in to see if they can't succeed. Those individuals -- when I say those individuals, I mean students who are marginal students, then you will -- when they come, you will know their SAT scores, ACT scores and you will know their -- their academic record. So, if they come in, then you have some academic standards to make sure that these students succeed.

They used to be called remedial courses. They're now called develop -- developmental courses. My experience have been that at the three institutions I had the opportunity to work was to look at the students when they came in the first semester, preferably before they came in, and say, looky here, so -- and advise them that you're a little bit behind academically, AC -- or compared to your scores or what have you, and here's what it's going to take to bring you up to standards in order for you to graduate.

If they know this up front, I have yet to find a student who would not go through that process. So it's important to make sure that they understand what it takes to get out of college. If the institution would institute such a program, I think it would be successful.

I had the opportunity to introduce a retention program at the University of Buffalo, and in that, the whole faculty was involved in retaining students because we had sort of a revolving door type thing. And so we were able to -- we were able to implement that retention program which helped the university tremendously. So that's what I would recommend.
Q.   And one other question, and that would be related to what you were indicating to advisors advising students to a course load to take necessary to graduate in the major that they have selected, wouldn't that be very helpful that the advisors be thoroughly familiar with what needs to be done and as a guiding principal spend time with the students to assist them in their college career?
A.   Absolutely. What -- what the retention program did for us, we got the whole faculty involved and assuming -- you know, I've been in athletics a long time. I have that kind of experience.

When you bring students in then you want to make sure that they graduate. If they don't have the potential to graduate, then there's no use to bring them in. But what you would do is you will have counselors and most important is students sometimes don't know what they need.
Q.   I see.
A.   And it's important for them to be told when they come in, say, "Looky here, now here's what it needs" -- when you -- when you apply and if you are accepted, these are the conditions. So the family knows what -- it may take a student an extra semester or summer to graduate, but I think if the retention program is put in place like it should be, then I think the student has an opportunity to -- to graduate.

Now, the graduation record for students throughout the country is 4.7 years. And so if you can get them out in that length of time, I think you'd be with the national average. And for athletes it's about 4.9 years. So -- but that's -- that's what you want to look at in terms of time. See, some students are able to graduate in three, three and a half, four, sometimes take a little bit longer.
THE CHAIRMAN:   Senator Giese.
SENATOR GIESE:   Mr. Chairman.
EXAMINATION BY SENATOR GIESE:
Q.   It bothers me that you've engineered into your concept of handling youngsters who really aren't prepared to go to college the fact that we should be offering, you used the word developmental courses at the college level that they should have passed at the high school level.

What that means is we furnish their high school education at state expense and now at the college level, we're going to fund them again to do high school work which I find offensive. And then you talk in terms of getting out there in five years and so on for graduation. The State has to support people that go to Coastal Carolina, a four-year school, in excess of $4,000 year. Every year they stay in school, the taxpayers pay another increment toward that education.

I would hope that if you serve on the Board of Trustees that you would be a strong advocate of insisting that if people have to take makeup courses, high school level courses, they don't do it at the expense of the taxpayers again.

I know -- I believe at the university now, we -- and I believe at Clemson, they don't spend any state money on developmental courses. If they don't deserve to get in school, don't take them. Let them go to a two-year school or where it's less expensive to get those makeup courses that you're talking about. But I think it's an exciting school developing very rapidly and they can be able to play a real part of -- whoever is elected, a real part in its development.
A.   Well, thank you very much, but the -- you know, the reality is that's the way it is in this state and most states across the country. We have a problem in higher education particularly with our students coming out of high school. They're poorly prepared. Most them are.

So -- and if you look at all of the curricula or all the bulletins that you have coming out, they have these courses. And I agree with you, it's very difficult to bring in all the students who are ready to do the academic work that's required.

Now, some colleges have a waiting list. The University of Buffalo unfortunately had a waiting list. There are some who got in who need some courses anyway because ten fifty, 1100 SAT score was required. But even at that, they had some students that needed some help.
THE CHAIRMAN:   Representative Littlejohn.
EXAMINATION BY REPRESENTATIVE LITTLEJOHN:
Q.   Mr. Richardson, you are willing to raise your standards then for students coming in?
A.   Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. I think that, you know, the students will reach whatever standards you set. If you set the standard high, they'll find a way to reach it. They -- you know, whatever is required, they will meet that standard. So it's up to the university to set that standard.
Q.   But you are willing to raise --
A.   Absolutely.
Q.   -- your standards?
A.   Absolutely. Absolutely.
THE CHAIRMAN:   Before you step down, Mr. Richardson, let me swear you in please. Will you raise your right hand?
LEO RICHARDSON, having been duly sworn, testified as indicated above.
THE CHAIRMAN:   Next we have Mr. Oran P. Smith. State your full name please, Mr. Smith.
MR. SMITH:   I'm Oran Perry Smith.
THE CHAIRMAN:   Would you raise your right hand.
ORAN P. SMITH, having been duly sworn, testified as follows:
MR. SMITH - EXAMINATION BY THE CHAIRMAN:
Q.   Mr. Smith, do you have any health related problems that would prevent you from serving on the board in a full capacity?
A.   No, sir.
Q.   Considering your present occupation and other activities, would you be able to attend board meetings on a regular basis?
A.   Yes, sir.
Q.   Do you have any interest professionally or personally that present a conflict of interest because of your service on the board?
A.   No, sir.
Q.   Do you now hold any public position of honor or trust that if elected would cause you to violate the dual office holding clause of the constitution?
A.   No, I do not.
THE CHAIRMAN:   Any questions of the gentleman?
SENATOR WILSON:   Mr. Chairman.
THE CHAIRMAN:   Senator Wilson.
EXAMINATION BY SENATOR WILSON:
Q.   You heard my concern expressed concerning a four-year graduation rate to Mr. Richardson, and I'd like to know what your view is on how we can address this problem that I think we have in South Carolina.
A.   Well, Senator, I think that's an appropriate question. Having served on the board for two years, I'm aware of the problem that we do have. Not to make excuses for the Coastal Carolina student, but much of the problem --
Q.   I mean it generically, not just the Coastal Carolina, although I think Coastal Carolina may have the lowest graduation rate.
A.   I think over four years it is -- if not the lowest, next to lowest. I think a lot of that has to do with a very simple fact that we have very little housing on campus. We have about 4500 students. We have only about 400 beds in the dormitory. So most of our students are living in Conway or Myrtle Beach.

To be perfectly honest, maybe some of them are spending a little too much time in Myrtle Beach. That keeps them away from the focus on their studies that they need to have at a university. So our commuter, the commuter nature of the campus is harmful, and I think compared with other commuter campuses, it's about the same.

Our president that we've hired in the last two years, Doctor Ron Ingle has done a study of the problems at Coastal that have to do with not only the graduation rate, but of keeping students. We lose a number of students from one year to the other, and he has instituted a new office within the administration, a vice president for enrollment management. And that individual's full time job is to see that not only do we have a better graduation rate, but that we retain students from year to year better.

They found that, for instance, athletes who come in, and they have the requirements for the NCAA that they have -- that they graduate or they have these high standards because of their athletes and receiving funding, the university has found that spending time with those students, a lot of attention with those students, has caused them to have among the highest graduation rates and some of the best grades on the campus and we're very proud of that.

So what they're going to attempt to do with this new enrollment management position is to -- to transfer some of those things they've learned from working with athletes to the -- to the students in general. And this is somewhat of a transition, but the funding issue is not so distant from this, the issues of state funding remaining somewhat level for Coastal. The more students that we retain, the fewer that have to be recruited to make up the difference, the fewer we have to recruit, the more money there is to meet our budget. So it's not only a problem of academics. It's a funding issue as well. So I'm confident that within the next year we should see a marked improvement in the graduation rates.
Q.   Thank you.
THE CHAIRMAN:   Senator Giese.
EXAMINATION BY SENATOR GIESE:
Q.   Mr. Smith, as I recall, and correct me if I'm wrong, the graduation rate at Coastal is 23 percent. Who is less than that in the state that's a state supported institution?
A.   That sounds correct, and I don't know that anyone is. Perhaps if we were to look at some technical schools which are considered a part of our college structure, they might be lower.
Q.   As a four-year institution, I believe --
A.   As a four-year institution that sounds about right, over four years. Four calendar -- or four academic years.
Q.   It is of considerable concern to certainly the people who fund the institution and now that you've broken away from the university, perhaps you'll be able to improve on that.
A.   Right. Thank you, sir. Well, I think another part of it is some students these days have three choices on how they're going to be able to pay for their college education, maybe mom and dad, state loans and grants, and more often those are loans these days. I know that's how I financed my college education. And then the other is working. And a lot of students at Coastal -- because there's such a large business district in the area, a lot of students at Coastal work almost full time in order to fund their college education, and that has harmed graduation rates. So many students are working their way through these days.

But without a doubt, that is a problem the university has -- the Board of Trustees has addressed on a number of occasions in the last year, and the administration of the university is on top of the issue and I think within the next year, we should see a marked improvement in that because of the attention being put upon it by the administration.
THE CHAIRMAN:   Mr. Inabinett.
EXAMINATION BY REPRESENTATIVE INABINETT:
Q.   Mr. Smith, you addressed the -- briefly the funding issue. As an individual board member since colleges and universities depend upon -- I mean their general funding is an important issue of part of their operations. As an individual, how would you address the present proposed budget cuts in higher education as it relates to the institution that you're hopeful to become a member of the board?
A.   Well, I think we have definitely shifted in the last few years from being a state supported institution or a state institution to a state assisted institution, because our budget is almost 50/50 state monies and monies that are raised from tuition. And it's almost to the point of, in Coastal's case, for every dollar we lose in state funding it needs to be passed along to the students for an increase in tuition.

I think that my predecessor here at the podium touched on a couple of good ideas. One is we need to work more with the business sector in the, not only the Waccamaw region of our state, but the entire state to promote more private giving. I know that Max Lennon (ph) at Clemson had a massive capital campaign where they raised a hundred million dollars of private money and the reports I've seen from our Development office do not show us in that ballpark even. We need to do a lot more with private giving and alumni giving, and I think also corporate giving.

So that -- that would be one answer that I would have if we're just faced with no further increases in state funding. If it continues to remain level, we will definitely have to go to the business sector, ask them to take a little pride in their community and in their community college and to kick in some funds to help us with our programs because many of the programs at Coastal Carolina benefit the entire community. Will Wright Auditorium hosts a number of events for the community and the community uses the campus for a number of events, swimming pool and a number -- numerous facilities, that's another option. Some of the facilities that are used by the community, perhaps a fee could be charged or fees could be increased, for instance, for the use of the swimming pool, for the use of the auditorium, some of these ways. Some user fees could be enacted or raised.
THE CHAIRMAN:   Mr. Littlejohn.
EXAMINATION BY REPRESENTATIVE LITTLEJOHN:
Q.   Mr. Smith, the university system has a working agreement with technical colleges to do remediation for certain students coming in. Do ya'll have a working agreement with tech schools in your area to remediate problem students, because it is cheaper to do it that way?
A.   As I understand it, and if you've ever been to our campus, Horry-Georgetown Tech is the same road that leads to Coastal Carolina. You make a right, you're on the Coastal campus. A left, and you're on the Horry-Georgetown Technical College campus. And our relationship with them is very close, and as I understand it, a number of the courses -- or a number of students transfer in from Horry-Georgetown where they have taken these courses, remedial courses, to prepare them for full college work. And, again, as I understand it, Coastal Carolina does not teach very many remedial courses. I just don't think the university can afford to do it and hasn't been doing it.

One thing I might add, Coastal Carolina until -- and again, I'm not an administrator, so some of the facts and figures, I'm not absolutely certain of. But I can tell you that Coastal Carolina was an open admissions institution until only a few years ago. I think 1988, in 1989-1990 calendar -- or school year, academic year, the college actually set in some admission standards, and since then it's not just an open door, you have to meet admissions standards to come to Coastal Carolina and we've been able to do that in the last five years and still be able to -- to meet our budget which I'm very proud to say that's been done.

Some colleges in the state I think may have raised their standards beyond what they can to be able to keep the school in the black, but we have I think walked a middle line of having high admission standards without pricing ourselves out of the market.
THE CHAIRMAN:   Any other questions? Yes, ma'am. Senator Glover.
SENATOR GLOVER:   Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
EXAMINATION BY SENATOR GLOVER:
Q.   Mr. Smith, in light of the ever present conversations on affirmative action, as a trustee member, what would you do or have been doing to look at the affirmative action goals? All of our universities have such goals. Are you aware of them at Coastal, and are they good and what will you do about them?
A.   Well, we have a strong affirmative action program at Coastal. In fact, the director of Personnel, her full title is the director of Personnel and Affirmative Action. That's a part of her title. That's what she has to see on her door every day and on her business card and concentrate on is not only personnel and employment, but affirmative action.

And our -- our plan that we have in place seems to be working quite well, and she has focused her efforts on that and spent a lot of time making sure that our institution is reflective of the state and the nation and that we are doing our part to help all of our people in the state to achieve some academic exposure and to be able to graduate and enjoy the benefits of a college education.

But I think that we're doing -- we're doing well with that. In fact, I would argue -- and again I'm not an administrator, but I would argue that no school in the state is more sensitive to affirmative action goals and plans than Coastal. So it's a constant issue and it's a constant discussion among the board and the administration and something that we're very serious about.
Q.   In your present administration, what are the ratios, just at the administrative level?
A.   Senator, I don't think I've ever actually had those figures presented to me. Perhaps there -- I'm sure they're in our annual report, and I could -- I could get back to you on that. But I don't think I know the exact percentages or the exact numbers to be able to calculate a percentage in.
Q.   In the first four, in your president, your vice president or presidents, what do you have right now in terms of minorities and women?
A.   We really only have three senior level officers of the university. Our -- our president is a white male. Our vice president for academic affairs or our provost is a white male. Our vice president for financial affairs is a white female. I'm trying to think through our deans now. We have a --
Q.   That's okay.
A.   We have a white female dean. Her job is open now. It seems that we are in the process of hiring a replacement for her. On the administrative level, the very top positions, I would say it is somewhat white male dominated and white female.
Q.   All right. Thank you.
THE CHAIRMAN:   Any other questions? Thank you, Mr. Smith.
A.   Thank you.
THE CHAIRMAN:   Next --
SENATOR WILSON:   Mr. Chairman.
THE CHAIRMAN:   Yes, Senator.
SENATOR WILSON:   Previously, the persons who were in uncontested races were acknowledged and then released and we now have Mr. Tony Grant, a long time friend of mine who is present here from the Second Congressional District. He currently holds the seat on the Board of South Carolina State University, and he, I'm delighted to see, is unopposed, and I just want to recognize him and move that he be acknowledged and released.
THE CHAIRMAN:   Thank you, Senator.
REPRESENTATIVE INABINETT:   Seconded.
THE CHAIRMAN:   We appreciate your -- the work you're doing.
MR. GRANT:   Thank you very much.
THE CHAIRMAN:   Yes, sir.
SENATOR WILSON:   And there may be other persons here. Are there any other persons in uncontested races?
THE CHAIRMAN:   Thank you. Next we have Third District, Payne Barnette. Mr. Barnette, would you raise our right hand please.
PAYNE BARNETTE, JR., having been duly sworn, testified as follows:
MR. BARNETTE - EXAMINATION BY THE CHAIRMAN:
Q.   Mr. Barnette, do you have any health related problems that the screening committee should be made aware of that would prevent you from serving on the board in your full capacity?
A.   No, sir, I don't.
Q.   Considering your present occupation or other activities, would you be able to attend board meetings on a regular basis?
A.   Yes, sir.
Q.   Do you have any interest professionally or personally that would present a conflict of interest because of your service on the board?
A.   No, sir.
Q.   Do you now hold any public position of honor or trust that if elected to the board would cause you to violate the dual office holding clause of the constitution?
A.   No, sir.
THE CHAIRMAN:   Any questions for Mr. Barnette?
REPRESENTATIVE INABINETT:   I have just a --
THE CHAIRMAN:   Mr. Inabinett.
REPRESENTATIVE INABINETT:   Thank you.
EXAMINATION BY REPRESENTATIVE INABINETT:
Q.   The same question as it relates to proposed decreased funding for colleges and universities, how would you handle that or what would you offer to help the university or the college?

And I have one other question that I'd like to ask you, sort of hot issue, as it relates to concealed weapons. There is a possibility if the bill that's now -- has been introduced, if passed, may give students the right to bear arms on campus or to carry a concealed weapons. Would you address that issue and the issue of funding?
A.   Yes, sir. The -- first the weapon issue, at Coastal, we haven't discussed that just -- but we just started preliminary talks about that because we didn't think it was an issue. I don't think anybody did until just recently.

Of course, throughout the country there's always been the threat of weapons on -- on school grounds and universities, and we have talked about that in the past. The only thing that I can think of is -- and it's also been mentioned before, is that -- is that we have a -- talked about having metal detectors in certain buildings, and, of course, another expense, and that sort of thing. I'm afraid that's all I can offer there.
Q.   But if the law passes and students are allowed to bear arms on campus or to carry concealed weapons, as an individual board member, what do you feel or what is your feelings as it relates to that?
A.   Of course, that -- having weapons on a college campus -- I went to college like most of you, and I don't think that I myself or -- or my constituents at the time were responsible enough to have weapons in their possession on a college campus. I definitely think that that would -- would not be a thing that we'd want.
Q.   Thank you.
THE CHAIRMAN:   Any other --
SENATOR WILSON:   Mr. Chairman.
THE CHAIRMAN:   Senator Glover.
EXAMINATION BY SENATOR WILSON:
Q.   I'm very concerned about a four-year graduation rate, how would you face the challenge of promoting a four-year graduation rate?
A.   What I would do, and have said before, is that the -- to promote this, the first thing we do is start at the beginning of the four year -- of the four-year education and we look at -- we look at majors and we work with the students on a periodic basis. We start with them in the first semester and we work with them on what their major is.

Any of those that -- and has to go the periodic meetings, predetermined meetings, those that don't make their major or don't make their mind up, then, you know, of course, academically you're also looking at that, you have these reviews early in their education.

This particular university is also real close to a tech school. We also are working with that school with those individuals who are planning to take majors in this university. Did I answer your question?
Q.   Thank you.
THE CHAIRMAN:   Any other question for this gentleman? Senator Glover.
SENATOR GLOVER:   Thank you.
EXAMINATION BY SENATOR GLOVER:
Q.   Mr. Barnette, how important are the affirmative action goals at Coastal to you, personally, I mean, and what do they mean?
A.   To me, personally, I think that everybody needs to have an equal opportunity. In the business that I'm in that is what we look at. That's -- that's something that I feel very strongly about. The opportunities for me have been great and I think that -- I do see this from time to time, there are those that aren't as fortunate as I have been. I want to make sure that everybody gets the opportunities equally.

At Coastal, we have discussed that on several occasions. It's something that we need to discuss often quite frankly. Personally, again, I think that -- I think it is very important to me, and I think that I'm knowledgeable in the subject and have practiced it in the past.
THE CHAIRMAN:   Thank you, sir. Next we have Carey Green. Mr. Green, will you raise your right hand.
CAREY J. GREEN, having been duly sworn, testified as follows:
MR. GREEN - EXAMINATION BY THE CHAIRMAN:
Q.   Mr. Green, do you have any health related problems that the screening committee should be made aware of that would prevent you from serving on the board in a full capacity?
A.   None whatsoever.
Q.   Considering your present occupation or other activities, would you be able to attend board meetings on a regular basis?
A.   Yes.
Q.   Do you have any interest professionally or personally that would present a conflict of interest because of your service on the board?
A.   None.
Q.   Do you now hold any public position of honor or trust that if elected to the board would cause you to violate the dual office holding clause of the constitution?
A.   No, sir.
THE CHAIRMAN:   Any questions? Senator Wilson.
EXAMINATION BY SENATOR WILSON:
Q.   How would you face the challenge of the four-year graduation rate?
A.   Concerning that, I think you've got to look at it realistically and being a graduate from Coastal, I see that maybe the lack of academic standards to be admitted in the school is one of the problems that -- that you might resolve by just raising the standard of entry into the university. That's one.

Number two would be realistically you need to look at community. I think the community being a lot of commuting students and the community's commerce, industry, the tourism is a definite factor in this. And I think if the graduation rate is -- is the lowest of any four-year institution in the state, you've got to realistically look at it and see that most of these students may be working jobs, and it's prolonging their education there. They're co-oping, so to speak.

I'm not sure that you can realistically solve that problem there. Commuting, people that is -- that are extending their education from -- from a relatively four-year program into a five or six. Specifically, you know, that -- that is a problem that can maybe only be resolved by raising the academic standards.

And also as a coordinator, former coordinator of academic advising, I think that if you can capture these people or these students the first year, get them to declare a major as soon as possible, and then get advisors to help them stay focused in a specific area -- as coming from Clemson University, we -- we capture student athletes or other students and -- and get them in a curriculum as soon as possible. And I know they may change majors, but try to cut out the fat as far as taking classes that they just want to take outside their curriculum.

That's a -- that's a tough question to answer, but specifically again maybe raising the academic standards to get in school, number one. Number two would be academic advising as soon as possible.
Q.   I'm delighted to hear that you've got the experience of working with academic advisors. Do you feel like they're properly trained to and motivated to work with the students or is this something extracurricular that to someone is a burden?
A.   Okay, from -- from the past, my experience has been it's a burden for -- for a professor, instructor, a teacher there at the university. That's in addition to what their normal work load. They would have to take a specific number of students in their -- hopefully, just in their discipline and try to coach them so to speak in there and keep them focused in that particular area. That's one thing.

At Clemson, we do have specific working with student athletes, we have the funding there from -- from our boosters or gift type, but we've got money that we can focus and hire just advisors for that specific area. And, you know, that's just an advantage we have there.

Back to your question, there would be additional burden to the professor, instructors.
Q.   I guess just a comment. I really would hope they wouldn't perceive it as a burden because it's so important to the young people in our colleges and universities.
A.   I agree with you.
Q.   I would hope somehow they could be inspired that even though they're given these names that would not be a perfunctory meeting of "nice to see you" and let's get on to the next person.
A.   I agree with you. It -- you know, they may look at it as a burden. I hope it wouldn't be. I hope there would be a more interpersonal relationship there that they would develop with that student.
THE CHAIRMAN:   Any other questions of the gentleman? Senator Glover.
SENATOR GLOVER:   Thank you.
EXAMINATION BY SENATOR GLOVER:
Q.   Mr. Green, why are you interested in serving on Coastal's board? And while answering that, I notice that you are an assistant coach. In relationship to the Senator's question to you, what has been your prior graduation rate of your athletes?
A.   Okay.
Q.   Those two questions.
A.   Okay, two questions. The reason I'm interested is that I see some of -- some parallels through my life and in Coastal. I went to a junior college. Coastal used to be a junior college. I've seen it go from a junior college to a college and then break away to a university.

Going from a junior college to Coastal, that's my school, and then getting my master's degree at a major university, in my own career, teaching and coaching at a high school level, and then moving to a junior college and then having this opportunity at Clemson University, I see some parallels.

I see Coastal growing and the future looking great and I want to jump on board. I want to maybe have some insight from my own experiences to try to help Coastal in their direction and their future.

Now, the other part of your question, our graduation rate for women basketball players at Clemson is about four and a half years. It is greater than -- I mean it's better than the average student at Clemson, and I think it's because of academic advising. We're keeping an eye on them, and they're not allowed to take classes outside
-- well, they're -- a few outside their curriculum, but not a wasted -- not a -- the fat is cut away in their academic curriculum.
Q.   And final question, the affirmative action goals of your -- of the university, how important are they to you and what would you do in that area?
A.   Okay. I personally believe in equal opportunity and just be aware and sensitive to that. I think I am now. I work with one other male specifically in our department there and six females.
THE CHAIRMAN:   Mr. -- Representative Inabinett.
EXAMINATION BY REPRESENTATIVE INABINETT:
Q.   Mr. Green, I have the same question -- questions that I had for the previous other candidates with respect to funding for colleges and universities as it relates to proposed cuts and students carrying concealed weapons on campuses. How as a board member would you be able to address those concerns?
A.   That's a tough question. I think there's only three areas that I specifically think we will -- we should explore. One would be raising fees for the students. Number two would be the corporate world, touch that, get in that. Clemson University is the greatest example of that. And number three would be through participation of alumni. Clemson University is again a good example of alumni being involved in the education and funding of the school.

Those would be the three areas as a board member that I think we ought to explore. Again, fees and alumni and the corporate world from -- because I really see that if you touch the corporate world, that's a big one, that you get a co-op program or some funding from them, then you're going to send your best students back to them as an employee.
Q.   What about the issue of concealed weapons on campus?
A.   Okay. I pray that that don't get passed. If it does, it's sad. That would just put you at the mercy of -- of people that may not be mature enough to understand or to carry concealed weapon.

I don't know as a board member that we can address that issue if it's passed and then set up any type of regulations other than -- and I'm not even sure that having metal detectors would be a cure from -- from that. But I think maybe -- definitely in the athletic realm, I know from experience metal detectors have -- have been an item there that -- that can -- could stop concealed weapons coming into the athletic arena.
Q.   If it becomes the law, then metal detectors really would have no use, but for some reason I seem to feel that there should be some sort of control. A student driving a car at school, to school or a bicycle, there's designated parking areas. There's some do's and don'ts, and I guess that's the gist of my question. I'm trying to find out how as a board member an issue or concern of this magnitude at least to me would be addressed by college and university board members?
A.   If we could set up regulation, I'm all in favor of that. And, again, I hope and pray that that don't happen. But if it was, I would definitely be in favor of setting up some regulations and restrictions according to concealed weapons.
Q.   Thank you, sir.
THE CHAIRMAN:   I might state at this point, of course, that the federal and state law both prohibit -- in fact, it's a felony for anyone under 21 to have possession of a firearm. Senator Giese.
SENATOR GIESE:   I don't think you need to worry about the legislation that it's in right now in the context of this conversation because you first have to prove that you have a need, and I can't -- to carry this gun and I can't believe that somebody can prove that there's a need to carry a gun on campus.

The second thing that's been mentioned, anybody today that's over 21 years of age can carry a pistol in the glove compartment of his car in the state of South Carolina. That's legal right now. So I don't think you need to worry about how you're going to take care of that problem because I think it would be stopped simply because a student couldn't prove a need to carry a gun on campus to be considered for that.
THE CHAIRMAN:   Any other questions? Thank you, sir. With the completion of Carey Green, that completes our Coastal Carolina candidates. We now go to South Carolina State University. Moses Wilds. Would you raise your right hand, please, Mr. Wilds.
MOSES A. WILDS, SR., having been duly sworn, testified as follows:
MR. WILDS - EXAMINATION BY THE CHAIRMAN:
Q.   Do you have any health related problems that the screening committee should be made aware of that would prevent you from serving on the board in a full capacity?
A.   I do not.
Q.   Considering your present occupation and other activities, would you be able to attend board meetings on a regular basis?
A.   I can.
Q.   Do you have any interest professionally or personally that would present a conflict of interest because of your service on the board?
A.   I do not.
Q.   Do you now hold any public position of honor or trust that if elected to the board would cause you to violate the dual office holding clause of the constitution?
A.   No, I don't.
THE CHAIRMAN:   Any questions? Senator Wilson.
SENATOR WILSON:   Mr. Chairman.
EXAMINATION BY SENATOR WILSON:
Q.   Again, my interest, and it's not just at Coastal Carolina, it's every college and university in South Carolina, and that is, what's being done to address the challenge of a four-year graduation rate and what would you support?
A.   We have many programs at South Carolina State that we encourage our students. South Carolina State has always been -- I'm a first year -- I'm a first family graduate of State, first in our family. And State has always been like a family. Our students feel that they can just talk to the advisors and get the proper advice. And just like we have in athletics, the coach goes by to see if students are visiting the library and doing as they should.
Q.   Thank you.
THE CHAIRMAN:   I see you got a degree from State in 1943.
MR. WILDS:   Yes.
THE CHAIRMAN:   Would that have been along about the time that Sammy Saxon attended? Did you know Sammy? He was from the town of Owings?
MR. WILDS:   Oh, I'm sure I did.
THE CHAIRMAN:   I believe --
MR. WILDS:   I was there when Marion Motley. You notice Marion Motley has been mentioned in the news quite recently. We were classmates.
THE CHAIRMAN:   I see. Mr. Inabinett.
EXAMINATION BY REPRESENTATIVE INABINETT:
Q.   Mr. Wilds, I have the same question as relates to funding.
A.   Yes.
Q.   How would you address that concern?
A.   Well, we have a restructuring program. That's one -- one method we have felt that would help us in reducing our administrative costs. And the other thing, we have fund-raising going on. We have many corporations now that they've agreed to be a partner with us. And I would encourage most of the public institutions to do the same thing. And we have encouraged our alumni to increase funding.

And there are many ways that we are going to promote to -- to help in this because when I went -- when I went on the board in '89, the State was funding us by 52 percent. And, of course, you know it's down to 30 something percent now. And we've -- we've made it since then from '89 where we were funded 52 percent, we're down in the thirties, so we were -- we've always had a way of making it in hard times.
Q.   Thank you, sir.
THE CHAIRMAN:   Thank you, sir.
A.   Thank you.
THE CHAIRMAN:   Next we have Mr. George Williams. Mr. Williams, will you raise your right hand please.
GEORGE WILLIAMS, having been duly sworn, testified as follows:
MR. WILLIAMS - EXAMINATION BY THE CHAIRMAN:
Q.   Mr. Williams, do you have any health related problems the screening committee should be made aware of that would cause -- prevent you from serving on the board in your full capacity?
A.   None.
Q.   Considering your present occupation and other activities, would you be able to attend board meetings on a regular basis?
A.   Yes.
Q.   Do you have any interest professionally or personally that present a conflict of interest because of your service on the board?
A.   None.
Q.   Do you now hold any public position of honor or trust that if elected to the board would cause you to violate the dual office holding clause of the constitution?
A.   None.
THE CHAIRMAN:   Questions for the gentleman?
SENATOR WILSON:   Mr. Chairman.
EXAMINATION BY SENATOR WILSON:
Q.   Mr. Williams, what would you do to promote a four-year graduation rate at South Carolina State University?
A.   I would do what I urged the students to do when I was director of minority students at Coastal Carolina University, to come to school for four years. We expect you to leave in four years. We expect you to pay attention, go to class, do your work and get out in four years. You came for a degree, we want you to leave with a degree in four years. That's how much time that we allocated for you, and that's how much time that you're supposed to put in.

Setting up standards and making sure that entrance standards are maintained, that students come in with the proper academic standards is important. Students that -- remedial will have to pick up those skills someplace else before they come to college. When they come to college, they have to be college material and have to be ready to go to work and ready to get into the curriculum, follow the curriculum, go to classes on a timely basis and get out.
Q.   I certainly appreciate your enthusiastic response, too. It's right on point.
A.   Thank you very much.
THE CHAIRMAN:   Mr. Inabinett.
EXAMINATION BY REPRESENTATIVE INABINETT:
Q.   I have the same question as it to relates to funding. Would you address that issue?
A.   Funding, Mr. Inabinett, I think that's -- I was thinking that the State of South Carolina would find it is that education is one of the most important products that we can give to our youngsters, that funding would not be cut to the point that worthy boys and girls would not be able to be educated.

The future of our state depends on an educated local citizenry, and if we're going to grow, if we're going to absorb the industry, if we're going to get into the technology, it's important that we put the funds there to make sure that they go to school and that they bring in the kind of industry that we need.

Now, in order to help it, and it does need help, I would encourage alumni giving. It's important that whatever amount alumni can give be encouraged to give. I would think it is that coming from the administration or administrative office, that the administrator would make sure it is that the alumni office is fully informed, that they have addresses that they keep up with and make sure there are survivable organizations in the school.

Secondly, I serve on the board at Conway Hospital, the Foundation Board. I have seen what giving can -- can mean to an institution. The hospital, they get in hundreds of dollars from people that doesn't have any place to put their money. A lot of them don't have families. A lot of them never have anything to do with them.

So we need to get into the business of saying to people it's important that you give to the future of this state and the future of this state is in education. So I would urge alumni giving. I would also urge foundation. And, firstly, I hope it is that the state of South Carolina does not feel that they need to cut education funding to the -- to that lowest level.
Q.   Thank you, sir.
THE CHAIRMAN:   Any other questions? Senator Glover.
SENATOR GLOVER:   Thank you.
EXAMINATION BY SENATOR GLOVER:
Q.   Mr. Williams, why do you want to serve on South Carolina State's board?
A.   I'm a student of South Carolina State. I attended South Carolina State. My wife, I met her there. We were classmates. We started working together, we retired together. I retired as a high school principal. She retired as a second grade teacher. My sister-in-law, I met her. She went to school there. My son went to school there. He's a funeral director.

As a high school principal, some of the things that I learned at South Carolina State, I was able to do in Horry County. I was the first black, Afro-American high school principal in Horry County. As a matter of fact, I built a school over there they call North Myrtle Beach High School, right off from Bay Street golf course.

And one of the programs I put in that school which really and truly helped is what I learned at South Carolina State. I put in an ROTC unit, a naval ROTC. The discipline -- the academics went up and the discipline went down. Consequently as a result all over Horry County they have ROTC programs all over. It's basically what I had learned at South Carolina State, what I learned in summer camp.

And I think it is that I need to give back to South Carolina State University some of the things that they have taught me, some of the things they taught my wife and my sister and both of my sons. And I think it is that we need to get in step with the 21st century and say it is South Carolina State University can be a great university, but we need vision and we need hard work and we need to move ahead with it, and I would like to help State do that. And I would like for you to give me that opportunity.
Q.   Mr. Williams, also with affirmative action, what are your goals for South Carolina State University and how important are affirmative action goals for this institution?
A.   South Carolina State University, I really and truly do not know what they're doing relative to affirmative action, but I can say this, I was the first Afro-American teacher to teach at Coastal Carolina University. I started teaching there in 1970. I taught two classes on Tuesday and Thursday.

When I retired in '86 or in '87, I went to work at Coastal Carolina University under Ron Ingle and I was director of minority students. Those minority students that I was in charge of, we have what we call Afro-Am, and I would say to them how important it was to go to class, to do your work. Those that were deficient, and there were quite a number deficient, and the reason being, a lot of those kids they would come to school, stay two years and they would ship off to U.S.C. where their diplomas came from. So, they only wanted to stay two years at Coastal and then they -- the program is changed now. They have a four-year institution.

But I do think it is South Carolina State University like Coastal, like Clemson, it should be a school for all people in the state of South Carolina. And since I've been sitting here listening to some of the people that attended Coastal and the ones that -- on the board there, I do know a little bit about Coastal.

Coastal is populated, not a whole lot by the local people, but a lot by people from the coal country. They come from Buffalo, New York. They come from Pennsylvania. They come from other places. And they do enjoy the beach. Some of them might not find that education is not -- so they might take a class in tennis and golf and swimming and so forth and so on. They might not think it is as important to get out of school in four years because, you know, they're kind of enjoying themselves.

Coastal is a good school, one of the highest rates of graduates that come from Coastal in business management. In E. Craigwell (ph) School of Business -- well, I'm not supposed to be talking about that. I'm supposed to be talking South Carolina State University. But I had to mention that because I worked at Coastal until I retired in 1991.

But I would like to tell you what I know and what I would like to do and what I would like to see happen at South Carolina State University. I would like to take it and help it.
Q.   Thank you.
THE CHAIRMAN:   Thank you, sir.
SENATOR WILSON:   Mr. Chairman.
THE CHAIRMAN: Oh, Senator.
RE-EXAMINATION BY SENATOR WILSON:
Q.   I would like to thank you for citing the importance of JROTC programs. I think they are very helpful and something that needs to be known across the United States is that at South Carolina State University, they have one of the finest ROTC units in all of America, and it produces as many graduates as any institution in America. And it's just been a real unheralded, but very positive and successful ROTC source for officers for our American military.
A.   Well, it has really helped. The two years when we were there and the two years we spent as officers training others, it has really helped.
REPRESENTATIVE INABINETT:   Mr. Chairman.
THE CHAIRMAN:   Mr. Inabinett.
REPRESENTATIVE INABINETT:   May I just add, South Carolina State through its ROTC program has produced several generals in the military. That's a plus.
MR. WILLIAMS:   We were in school together, so he knows.
THE CHAIRMAN:   Thank you, sir.
A.   Thank you.
REPRESENTATIVE LITTLEJOHN:   Mr. Chairman.
THE CHAIRMAN:   Yes, sir.
REPRESENTATIVE LITTLEJOHN:   The House is in session. What are our plans?
THE CHAIRMAN:   The Speaker said earlier it's all right to run on through. Next we have Mr. Arnold Collins. Yes, sir, Mr. Collins, would you raise your right hand please, sir.
ARNOLD COLLINS, having been duly sworn, testified as follows:
MR. COLLINS - EXAMINATION BY THE CHAIRMAN:
Q.   Mr. Collins, do you have any health related problems that the screening committee should be made aware of that would prevent you from serving on the board in a full capacity?
A.   None.
Q.   Considering your present occupation or other activities, would you be able to attend board meetings on a regular basis?
A.   Yes, I will.
Q.   Do you have any interest professionally or personally that present a conflict of interest because of your service on the board?
A.   None.
Q.   Do you now hold any public position of honor or trust if elected to the board would cause you to violate the dual office holding clause of the constitution?
A.   None.
THE CHAIRMAN:   Any questions of Mr. Collins?
SENATOR WILSON:   Mr. Chairman.
THE CHAIRMAN:   Yes, sir.
EXAMINATION BY SENATOR WILSON:
Q.   Mr. Collins, what would you propose to promote the four-year graduation rate at South Carolina State University?
A.   I have mixed feelings about that. I believe in four year program for certain disciplines -- nursing teaching. But in particular in business and engineering, I prefer five year programs.

My son graduates from South Carolina State in three weeks, the five-year program. He's going to be a junior officer at NationsBank because he worked in the corporation arena for a year, so he'll have an edge I think on those students who work in the corporate program, especially in the -- I mean the co-op program in the corporate arena. They'll have an edge in getting employment when they're out of school.

Not only that, it teaches them certain things. It gives them an inside look at a corporate life prior to graduating from school. So again I believe in minimizing taxpayers dollars. So in certain programs, I think they should be four years, but in some programs I prefer a five-year program, I want to be honest with you.
THE CHAIRMAN:   Any other questions of the gentleman? Senator Glover.
SENATOR GLOVER:   Yes.
EXAMINATION BY SENATOR GLOVER:
Q.   Mr. Collins, why do you want to serve on South Carolina State's board?
A.   Senator, to be honest with you, I've been asked by certain -- some interest -- some individuals to apply for this position. I had the pleasure of serving on South Carolina State College board from 1983 to 1989. I was appointed by the former Governor Riley.

My professional background over the last 25 years has been banking, finance, business development and now I'm in Human Services Management. When I joined the board some years ago, the financial presentation -- I'm saying this very compassionately. The financial presentation was oral, about five minutes long. Through my leadership we've got financial reporting to the board line item just by every program.

Then the chairman of the board, I.S. Leevy Johnson appointed me as chairman of the finance committee. I worked intimately with the auditing department and the fiscal department, and we wanted to see all the revenues on the table. We wanted to see all the programs expenses by line item, and I was very instrumental in that. In the year that I left the board, South Carolina State had an unqualified opinion from it's auditors. I want to go back to continue that, that legacy of watching the numbers.

Attending some of the games and meeting some of the old colleagues there, they were telling me we sure miss you there watching those numbers, so I've got the time and I want to go back and use my professional -- my fiscal background to see what I can and especially in these times when federal funds and other funds are being diminished.
Q.   How important are affirmative action goals for you for South Carolina State?
A.   I think affirmative action is very, very important. I was instrumental in working along with the school back in the eighties to get a diverse group of people. I think it's very, very important. CBS has seen the wisdom of having -- having racial diversity. I think it's a thing to do.

I think South Carolina State needs to do it and I'll be very, very actively involved in seeing that a diverse group of people attend, teach and show their leadership at the school, because when our kids leave there and go to the world of work, they will need -- they will need the personality and the -- and the -- and experiences that a -- that a multiracial makeup provides. So I think it's the way of the future and I think it's right and I like to do things that are right.
THE CHAIRMAN:   Any other questions? Thank you, Mr. Collins. Next we have Seat 4. Our first candidate is Doctor James L. Bullard. Let me swear you in, Doctor Bullard. If you'd raise your right hand.
DOCTOR JAMES L. BULLARD, having been duly sworn, testified as follows:
DOCTOR BULLARD - EXAMINATION BY THE CHAIRMAN:
Q.   Doctor Bullard, do you have any health related problems that the screening committee should be made aware of that would prevent you from serving on the board in a full capacity?
A.   No, sir.
Q.   Considering your present occupation or other activities, will you be able to attend board meetings on a regular basis?
A.   I would.
Q.   Do you have any interest professionally or personally that present a conflict of interest because of service on the board?
A.   I do not.
Q.   Do you now hold any public position of honor or trust that if elected to the board would cause you to violate the dual office holding clause of the constitution?
A.   No, sir.
THE CHAIRMAN:   Any questions of the gentleman? Senator Glover.
SENATOR GLOVER:   Yes. Thank you.
EXAMINATION BY SENATOR GLOVER:
Q.   Doctor Bullard, in your service as a South Carolina State Board of Trustees, what do you think that you have offered, and then, of course, the second question would be your personal views on affirmative action and how important is that to the university?
A.   To begin, we definitely without a doubt recognize that we bring to the university or have brought to the university over the past two years that we have served an array of skills. I possess a doctorate from Florida State University in higher education wherein policy planning and analysis was my area of specialization.

So since being at South Carolina State along with being CEO of Today's Vender System (ph) which is a corporation that I am responsible for the day to day operation of, we certainly know the importance of budgetary kinds of restraints. On having assessed the current status of affairs at South Carolina State, we have been able to be instrumental in working with the president and other board members moving towards the establishment of foundations, and now we're beginning to look at the possibility of endowed chairs and also encouraging and trying to find various ways to get the alumni association to be more supportive of the university.

Further, we have spoken in a very kind way and set some goals to encourage the faculty to continue and compete more vigorously in the area of research and also to work towards the acquisition of grants. And as the chairperson of the Academic Affairs Committee on which I now serve, one of the things that I am working with the chairman of the board and the president even as I speak is to look at that issue of tenure.

You know, tenure throughout the history of the university has sort of been a sacred cow if you will. I'm not so sure that as we stand on the threshold of the 21st century, we can continue that endeavor of tenure as we once knew it. Tenure can be existent, but I do believe we've got to look at the number of tenure slots. And also as a visionary idea that I perceive, I do believe that the university may be able to run, be run with part time faculty with some of the frills that are currently existent being lessened. And that can bring about more affordability.

Also, I'm very concerned about student services and making sure that the necessary support services are there for students. We do know that running the university after having been there is an august task to say the least and policy development is -- is something that we do not take lightly and having for -- training in that area, I do believe I bring a lot of strength in that area to the university. That's in brief.

Now, as far -- as far as affirmative action is concerned, I know that and I believe very strongly that we should be sensitive to all mankind irregardless of their ethnic enclave or their nationality, creed, sex, gender or whatever. And I know that that's the right thing.

At South Carolina State, I think without doubt the past two years that I've been there, we've seen inroads being made. There are faculty, students and not enough diversity, but there is a good bit of diversity at South Carolina State, but we certainly work each day, each hour to make sure that we begin to bridge the gap, so that we can live in a world more at peace and harmony.

The only way that man can coexist, and we can find a sense of peace and comfort within ourselves is knowing that we can be all that we can be and that is for every person regardless of his race, creed, color, or gender, sex.
THE CHAIRMAN:   Senator Giese.
SENATOR GIESE:   Mr. Chairman.
EXAMINATION BY SENATOR GIESE:
Q.   If I could follow up on that just a bit. You've been on the board two years?
A.   Yes, sir.
Q.   Doctor Bullard, could you be specific and tell me a couple of affirmative action programs you have in action now on the campus to attract white students to your campus?
A.   Yes, sir. Some may perceive it preferential towards whites students, but I don't. I think it's only right because South Carolina State University is a state university, and it's created for its citizenry. I happen to know firsthand that white students who are, or not just white, but any other minority student other than black that would be at South Carolina State, that they would be given special attention, so that we might be able to foster the demographics at the institution that would be healthy towards righting if you will, or causing for the university to be more diverse.

We know that we live in a society that is multicultural and just all of one thing, too much of anything is just not good. So we purport and we know that society at large is mixed. There are apples and oranges and carrots and grapefruits and whatever, and in order for our students to coexist and to exist and be all they can be and compete competitively, we know that as soon as they can get that exposure to coexist with others, it's in their best interest.
Q.   But can you specific -- do you have any special scholarship programs restricted only --
A.   Oh, yes.
Q.   -- to white students to --
A.   They are not restricted as such to just white students, but a white student may receive preferential treatment if all of the indices in a particular situation are the same.
SENATOR WILSON; Mr. Chairman.
THE CHAIRMAN:   Senator Wilson.
EXAMINATION BY SENATOR WILSON:
Q.   What would you do to promote a four-year graduation rate at South Carolina State University?
A.   Attrition is paramount and we find that it's not just at South Carolina State institution or university, but we find that attrition all over these United States is very important. I say this for the reason that we know that we are beginning to enter a period where there will be a decline in the number of students who are attending four-year institutions because during the period of the seventies, from seventies to '85, there was a decline for those of us that follow the demographics in population growth in the number of families who were having children. So we're about -- we're on the threshold of seeing for the next, if you will, five or six years a decrease in the number of warm bodies that would be occupying higher educational institutions.

So, in the -- as we begin to deal with attrition and we look at the number of students that are available, we want to attract those that are most capable and able. And how we maintain doing that is by providing the support services, the counseling services, to attract them and once they're there to try and meet their needs. Not necessarily by putting them out. .

If you look at South Carolina State University, the one thing that is very, very positive about it is that the graduation rate has been fairly high. And that is because of support services that are in place. And we should continue that to make sure that the attrition rate remains the way it should. I don't know if I answered your question.
Q.   You -- excellent response. Thank you.
THE CHAIRMAN:   Thank you, Doctor. Next, we have Alphonso Allen Mr. Allen, raise your hand, please.
ALPHONSO ALLEN, having been duly sworn, testified as follows:
MR. ALLEN - EXAMINATION BY THE CHAIRMAN:
Q.   Mr. Allen, do you have any health related problems that the screening committee should be made aware of that would prevent you from serving on the board in a full capacity?
A.   None whatsoever.
Q.   Considering your present occupation and other activities, would you be able to attend board meetings on a regular basis?
A.   Yes, sir, I will.
Q.   Do you have any interest professionally or personally that would present a conflict of interest because of service on the board?
A.   None whatsoever.
Q.   Do you now hold any public position of honor or trust that if elected to the board would cause you to violate the dual office holding clause of the constitution?
A.   I do not.
THE CHAIRMAN:   Any questions of the gentleman?
SENATOR GIESE:   Mr. Chairman.
THE CHAIRMAN:   Senator Giese.
EXAMINATION BY SENATOR GIESE:
Q.   I notice you're a member of AFORD (ph) what role did you play to become a member of AFORD?
A.   I was -- when I was in high school, I was in coaching -- in the coaching fraternity, and I was also the president of the Greenville -- Association of Greenville County Schools back in the late sixties.
Q.   Thank you.
SENATOR WILSON:   Mr. Chairman.
THE CHAIRMAN:   Yes, sir. Senator Wilson.
EXAMINATION BY SENATOR WILSON:
Q.   Mr. Allen, what would you do to promote the four-year graduation rate at South Carolina State University?
A.   I did have the advantage of making some notes while I was out there.
Q.   Very good.
A.   There is my -- this is my candid answer. I think that we should take a hard -- hard look at the long term solutions to this problem, elevate entrance standards and continuously evaluate those students who remain. That's the way I see it.
Q.   And would you promote counselors and advisors to meet with the students and keep them fully informed?
A.   I would have -- I would have no problem. I would not limit the situation to any extent. I've heard people say whether professors or teachers would be burdened, I think the majority of them would not be burdened. I think the majority of the people who -- at other schools as well as my alma mater take on -- take with pride an extra mission to help students become mature and grow and develop.

They understand, I understand, you understand that when they come, they are not the persons you want them to be. They come with the rough edges and we try to hone them into becoming productive adults.
Q.   Thank you very much.
THE CHAIRMAN:   Any other questions?
REPRESENTATIVE INABINETT:   Thank you.
EXAMINATION BY REPRESENTATIVE INABINETT:
Q.   The same question as it relates to funding --
THE CHAIRMAN:   Mr. Inabinett.
Q.   -- in light of proposed decreases?
A.   I think I understand your question. I have to take the outsider's view, but I would explore all the -- and come up with some creative solutions to this pressing problem, individual funding, corporate funding. The list is -- the list is unknown. We haven't been very successful because we have not explored these avenues on a continuous basis over the years, so I would be a part of that group of people who would want to explore the avenues to see how far we can go because how far we can go to complement the state dollars.
THE CHAIRMAN:   Any other questions? Senator Glover.
SENATOR GLOVER:   Thank you.
EXAMINATION BY SENATOR GLOVER:
Q.   Mr. Allen, why do you want to serve on South Carolina State's board, and how important are the affirmative action goals for the university to you?
A.   May I answer the affirmative action first? I should hope that all of our institutions would become standard bearers among -- all of our institutions of higher learning will become standard bearers and get this thing behind us once and for all. I'm particularly interested that South Carolina State would be the foremost standard bearer in doing this with enough style and enough class that others would want to copy how we do it.

First, I'm a loyal alumni, the second -- second part of your question. Since graduating from State, I've maintained an active association with the school through the years. I'm a dues paying, working member of the National Alumni Association and I've attended all of the national conventions and currently serve as a founding member of the Palmetto Classic Committee and the standing committee of the class of 1963 -- 53, which has a record of giving more money to the educational endowment than any class in South Carolina State's history.

My local, regional and national supporters understand and accept my condition to seek the seat as a worthy candidate whose agenda is to seek the optimum for higher education in South Carolina in general and South Carolina State University in particular.
Q.   Thank you.
MR. ALLEN:   Mr. Inabinett, may I address your prior question about the guns?
REPRESENTATIVE INABINETT:   Thank you.
MR. ALLEN:   That is a -- that is a situation I hope does not come to pass. I cannot visualize our society as a place where -- wherever people went everybody was armed. I'm just not comfortable with that, and I would hope the wisdom of the legislature, of the state legislature would prevail upon all of us to such a degree that we -- we would get a wave of -- just don't allow it happen. I think all of us would be quite uncomfortable if that happened on any campus. I for one would be.
REPRESENTATIVE INABINETT:   Thank you.
THE CHAIRMAN:   Thank you, sir. Next we go to Seat 6, Edwin Givens. Mr. Givens, raise your left hand, please. Might the record show that his right arm is apparently broken and in a sling.
EDWIN GIVENS, having been duly sworn, testified as follows:
MR. GIVENS - EXAMINATION BY THE CHAIRMAN:
Q.   Mr. Givens, do you have any health related problems that the screening committee should be made aware that would prevent you from serving on the board in your full capacity?
A.   No, I don't.
Q.   Considering your present occupation and other activities, would you be able to attend board meetings on a regular basis?
A.   Yes, I would.
Q.   Do you have any interest professionally or personally that present a conflict of interest because of your service on the board?
A.   No, I don't.
Q.   Do you now hold any public position of honor or trust that if elected to the board would cause you to violate the dual office holding clause of the constitution?
A.   No, I don't.
THE CHAIRMAN:   Questions of the gentleman?
SENATOR WILSON:   Mr. Chairman.
THE CHAIRMAN:   Senator Wilson.
EXAMINATION BY SENATOR WILSON:
Q.   Mr. Givens, what would be your suggestions to promote a four-year graduation rate at South Carolina State University?
A.   First of all, I'm a 1985 graduate of South Carolina State and a graduate of the University of South Carolina School of Law. And while I was at the University of South Carolina School of Law, I was very instrumental in the Dean's advisory board in setting up tutorial programs for students who were coming in and having problems in various classes. I feel we can employ students who have excelled in various areas of academics -- math and English -- and use them in a work study capacity to help students who are struggling in various areas and promote this method to enable them to graduate in a more expeditious manner.

Now, on another note, South Carolina State's mission is to create successful citizens in their chosen careers and through their chosen aspirations and to contribute to the dynamics of society and the community is a very important mission for South Carolina State, and I feel that this is more important than a student actually graduating in four years. Creating a productive citizen who can come out and contribute to society instead of take away from society, I think is very important.

But I -- on the other hand, graduating in four years and as fast as possible is a mission that I would definitely take on.
Q.   Thank you.
THE CHAIRMAN:   Senator Giese.
EXAMINATION BY SENATOR GIESE:
Q.   Mr. Givens, you're a four-year graduate according to your vita here?
A.   Yes.
Q.   And then you finished the law school obviously in three years. So, tell me how much did you have to work? Did you work your way through school, and if you did work your way through school, how many hours a week did you, or were you fortunate enough to be able just go to school?
A.   Well, as an undergrad at South Carolina State, I was fortunate to go through school. When I went to school law, my parents basically told me I had to help. I do this mostly on my own. So, I worked through law school while attending full time.
Q.   Would you say this is an accurate statement to say that a lot of students go off to school having to work to get their way through school and work themselves out of school by spending too much time working?
A.   That is the case in some instances. The University of South Carolina School of Law, they don't allow students to work their first year of law school. They want you to get indoctrined (sic) into the curriculum and understand what you are facing, and then your second and third year, you're allowed to work.

So I would not be in favor of a first year freshman being made to work. I think they need to get really familiar with the new academic setting and the different environment that they're in.
Q.   I think without question the fact that some youngsters spend too much time working. I spent 40 years in higher education and the single greatest reason why I found children flunk or students flunking out was that they had spent too much time working and not enough time on their academics. So I guess that's a delicate balance that they have to realize that they're there to get an education and work themselves out of school by some outside job is really economy.
A.   Right.
THE CHAIRMAN:   Mr. Inabinett.
EXAMINATION BY REPRESENTATIVE INABINETT:
Q.   Yes. I'm really enthused over the idea of a tutorial work study program. I had not heard that addressed. How would you address funding for the institution?
A.   Well, funding is an area that we have to handle with -- with precision. I understand 1993-94 fiscal budget that was that -- was handed down from the General Assembly was about $18,640,000 and in 1994-95 that was decreased about $324,000. And this year, I understand that there's probably going to be about a two and a half percent decrease also.

So, as far as funding, I would recommend that we tap more sources as far as private contributions, businesses, endowments and grants. South Carolina State has already taken part in those avenues that are available to them, but I believe that we can actually expand in these areas and bring more funding into the school.
Q.   Thank you.
SENATOR GIESE:   Mr. Chairman, one more.
THE CHAIRMAN: Senator Giese.
RE-EXAMINATION BY SENATOR GIESE:
Q.   Work study is funded 80 percent by the federal government, 20 percent locally.
A.   Right.
Q.   So that's a good investment. I really like your idea about peer counseling also, but 80 percent federal funding.
A.   Yes.
THE CHAIRMAN:   Senator Glover.
SENATOR GLOVER:   Yes.
EXAMINATION BY SENATOR GLOVER:
Q.   Mr. Givens, why do you want to serve on South Carolina State's board, and secondly, how important are the affirmative action goals for the university to you?
A.   Well, I would like to serve on South Carolina State's board, first of all, I'm a 1985 graduate of the school, and I'm very invigorated with the programs that are going on at South Carolina State now. I'm very enthused about South Carolina State. I have a deep commitment to South Carolina State.

I feel that South Carolina State has opened doors to me and given me the opportunity to be successful in life and to become a layer, and I would just like to give back some to South Carolina State what was given to me. I would like to share back some of the experiences that I've had and some of the goals I've been able to achieve by serving on the Board of Trustees. I can't think of any other position that I hold that I would feel more comfortable with and more enthused with as far as South Carolina State than to contribute back to the university's Board of Trustees.

As far as affirmative action at South Carolina State, South Carolina State was started back 1896 I believe as a land grant institution primarily to serve African-American citizens of South Carolina, when it was known as South Carolina Agriculture and Mechanical College at that point. Since then South Carolina State has grown to be multicultural. They've grown to be somewhat diverse. The education programs are set up, I understand some doctoral programs were taken from the University of South Carolina to attract more -- more people of other races and cultures to South Carolina State College. So I am in strong support of affirmative action and creating a multicultural, multiracial environment in South Carolina State College.
Q.   Thank you.
THE CHAIRMAN:   Thank you, sir. Next we have Doctor Thomas Wilson. Doctor Wilson, raise your right hand, please.
DOCTOR THOMAS WILSON, having been duly sworn, testified as follows:
DOCTOR WILSON - EXAMINATION BY THE CHAIRMAN:
Q.   Doctor Wilson, do you have any health related problems the screening committee should be made aware of that would prevent you from serving on the board in a full capacity?
A.   I do not.
Q.   Considering your present occupation or other activities, would you be able to attend board meetings on a regular basis?
A.   I will be able to.
Q.   Do you have any interest professionally or personally that present a conflict of interest because of service on the board?
A.   None, sir.
Q.   Do you now hold any public position of honor or trust that if elected to the board would violate the dual office holding clause of the constitution?
A.   I do not.
THE CHAIRMAN:   Questions?
SENATOR WILSON:   Mr. Chairman.
THE CHAIRMAN:   Senator Wilson.
EXAMINATION BY SENATOR WILSON:
Q.   Doctor Wilson, what would be your proposal as to promote a four-year graduation rate at South Carolina State University?
A.   Senator, the graduation rate of South Carolina State University is fair. What I would recommend, I recommend that the university screen its students. I recommend that they get quality accidents. Once you get quality students, students have a mission in life, we have a higher percentage of graduates. If I can give you one example of another institution, Hampton University in Hampton, Virginia.

Hampton has a slot with 3,000 freshmen. Hampton recruit 9,000 freshmen and they get the best 300 -- or best 3,000 from that 9,000 and because of that, 93 percent of Hampton's students graduate. And I would recommend that we follow this same trend. The top students are out there and students who are concerned are out there. We must go out and get those students.
Q.   And you would also support the advisors being truly interested in the students and assisting the students who are there in terms of courses to be taken and advice on just generally how to adapt to college life?
A.   I think it should be a close relationship with the department deans and the students. I think department heads should meet with their department graduates or department majors, during the course of several times per year to find out where the students are and where you're going, are you having any problems, and come to the conclusion there and address these concerns.

Too often sometimes our department heads just let the student go through and time to graduate, you know, I need some more hours or I failed a course. I think we should stay in touch with our graduates.
Q.   Thank you.
THE CHAIRMAN:   Any other questions.
REPRESENTATIVE INABINETT:   Yes. Thank you.
THE CHAIRMAN:   Representative Inabinett.
EXAMINATION BY REPRESENTATIVE INABINETT:
Q.   Doctor Wilson, can you tell us since you've been on the Board of Trustees for a year or two your involvement as it relates to funding for the institution and what you would do in the future as it relates to proposed cuts in higher education?
A.   I thank you, Mr. Inabinett. In regard to cuts, we may not have too much control over that. What I'm going to do, I'm going to compensate for those cuts. Now, here where the problem comes in, where are you going to get the funds from? I happen to be a professional fund raiser.

I raised funds for a college, a private college for 12 years, and the budget had to come from what I do. I have experience in that. I've done that. I've knocked on foundation doors. I've knocked on corporation doors. And those doors are still open, but I have no college to go there for since I retired.

I sat in Senator Thurmond's office with a proposal and received grants for 75 and 80 and a hundred thousand dollars because we have a mission, and this mission was sold. We have a good product. When you have a good product, you got to sell your good product to someone who is going to back that product and I -- this is one of the recommendation, you know, I would suggest.

I also would like to be the first person to start a board members check writing contest. You see, if I'm going to sit on a board, you know, I'm going to put mine on the table first, and then I can say, "Members, let's join the force."
Q.   I guess my question was what have you done in the past for South Carolina State as it relates to fund raising. I didn't -- maybe you answered that question and I didn't hear you.
A.   What I've done in the past, I may have one of my little brochures here. I was the executive secretary for South Carolina State National Alumni Association. First, we set up goals. Goal number one, we're going to endow a scholarship for Doctor M. -- we presented him $50,000 to endow this scholarship here where we get a more top students.

The national alumni contributed $63,000 in 1986 to the college for more scholarships. Doctor Samuel Struman (ph) endowed a $6,000 scholarship for the college. All came through my efforts of fund raising. And what I would like to do is continue this.
Q.   Thank you.
A.   And I have a contact there.
Q.   Thank you.
THE CHAIRMAN:   Mr. Littlejohn.
EXAMINATION BY REPRESENTATIVE LITTLEJOHN:
Q.   Doctor Wilson, you mentioned you'd like to go after the top students and maybe raise the standards. Do you realize that would eliminate 15, 20 percent of your students? Would you really be willing to do that?
A.   That would be a part of the program.
Q.   Sir?
A.   That would be part of the program. See, first you try to get the top. You get the top qualified students. Now, we know that there are other students who are coming out. If you have those students, then how are you going to deal with that? Then we work with those students, where you find them, we work with them through the department heads. We work with those students through tutoring programs or find out where their weakness are, and then we address those concerns.

All students may have a different reason why they drop out or fall back.
Q.   But if you go after the top students and raise the standard, you're just going to eliminate three, four, five hundred students. What are you -- would you really be willing to do that and to put them into the vocational school, maybe where they need to go anyway? Would you really be willing to do that?
A.   This would be what we call an initiation progress -- process. We start this process. In other words, we take the students from both areas, but we work toward getting our top caliber students. Not that we're going to turn all the other students down.
Q.   Thank you.
THE CHAIRMAN:   Any other questions?
SENATOR GLOVER:   Yes.
THE CHAIRMAN:   Senator Glover.
EXAMINATION BY SENATOR GLOVER:
Q.   Doctor Wilson, I think you've already addressed my first question which is why you want to serve on the board, so we'll go to the second one and tell me how important are the affirmative action goals of the university to you.
A.   Can I take the first -- could you ask me the first question? I'd like to address that question.
Q.   All right. Go right ahead.
A.   I have three reasons why I want to be on the board. Number one, I'm from the Greater Pee Dee area of South Carolina. That's the roughest farm area in the United States. The Greater Pee Dee region is not recommended (sic). It's not on the board. We are not represented on the South Carolina State Board of Trustees. The past 50 years, I don't recall when a person from the Greater Pee Dee area has been on the South Carolina State Board of Trustees, and I think by running for this seat here we give the Pee Dee area representation. And I think all areas should be represented on a state Board of Trustees, and this is reason number one.

Reason number two, in my experience of fund raising, I'd like to rechallenge this fund raising idea back to the college, and being a philanthropist, I'd like to give some scholarships and open some new doors and some new funding program to the college.

And number three, one of my primary volunteer jobs is recruiting. I go all over the Pee Dee area high schools and I say, "Give me the list of your top 20 or 25 students." I send those name and addresses down to Miss Freed to the admissions office. Ninety percent of those students are being accepted, and I want to continue doing this.

Now, if I was on the board, I could work with board members and with the alumni to continue recruiting top students. And those are three reasons why I like to serve on the board.
Q.   Thank you.
A.   Now, as far as affirmative action being on South Carolina State College for about six years, I've only seen fairness. They practice fairness. Everybody has the same opportunity, the same chance, and I think we have a very good, diversified administration, faculty and staff and students there.

However, listening to the questions from one of the senators concerning how would you attract white students to come to the university, you may have to set up some kind of special program, offer more scholarships, let it be open to everybody, and I think if we further this trend, we will attract more students from all aspects to the university.
Q.   Thank you.
THE CHAIRMAN:   Any other questions? Thank you, sir.
A.   Thank you.
THE CHAIRMAN:   Let's see, next we go to the Citadel. Colonel Stephen D. Peper.
COLONEL STEPHEN D. PEPER, having been duly sworn, testified as follows:
COLONEL PEPER - EXAMINATION BY THE CHAIRMAN:
Q.   Do you have any health related problems that the screening committee should be made aware of that would prevent you from serving on the board in a full capacity?
A.   No, sir.
Q.   Considering your present occupation or other activities, would you be able to attend board meetings on a regular basis?
A.   Yes, sir.
Q.   Do you have any interest professionally or personally that would present a conflict of interest because of service on the board?
A.   No, sir, I do not.
Q.   Do you now hold any public position of honor or trust that if elected to the board would cause you to violate the dual office holding clause of the constitution?
A.   No, sir.
THE CHAIRMAN:   Questions for the Colonel?
SENATOR WILSON:   Mr. Chairman.
THE CHAIRMAN:   Senator Wilson.
EXAMINATION BY SENATOR WILSON:
Q.   The Citadel has the highest graduation rate of any college in South Carolina, but what would you do to improve it?
A.   We're doing quite well. We do need to improve it in some areas. We have talked about taking some of the courses in the engineering program presently and making them two semester courses instead of trying to load them up and putting more into labs on that point.

One of the reasons for our success I think, and it's really not fair in one aspect to compare because we do have a captive audience where a lot of the undergraduate programs do not, and our cadets are not allowed a work outside of the school. They can certainly do like I did and deliver papers and work in work study programs and things of that nature, but we are not -- you can't get off campus to go to work at someone's insurance agency in the afternoon.
Q.   Does the Citadel sort of have a very good advisor program where they work with the students?
A.   Our advisor program is not a volunteer program and oftentimes it's difficult to attract faculty to come there for that reason. But we -- we require our faculty members to be assigned a pool of students and they recommend them through the criteria and the curriculum on that. And we don't want mistakes on Monday morning the day after graduation and "hey, what happened?" We don't want surprises. So, yes, it's very active.

And not only do we have that for students, we have academic advisors who are then assigned to each company in the battalion, and so they are familiar with each company's academic officer. And, of course, we also have a required evening study period from 7:00 o'clock until 10:30 where you have to be accounted for somewhere. You can sign out and go to the library. You can sign out to go to one of the study halls. But you're only allowed to go out in town if you've received special privileges based upon academic performance in the previous semester.
Q.   Thank you.
THE CHAIRMAN:   Any other questions? Senator Giese.
SENATOR GIESE:   Mr. Chairman.
EXAMINATION BY SENATOR GIESE:
Q.   Is there anything in your recent record that would indicate you've had any problems with the law?
A.   With the law? No, sir. Not at all.
Q.   Any kind of judgments or -- I can't be more specific than that, but --
THE CHAIRMAN:   That'd be civil.
Q.   Civil. Any kind of -- anything that has to do with the criminal code? I'm not a lawyer, so I can't -- any arrests or appearances before a court?
A.   On the criminal side, sir?
Q.   With a criminal --
A.   Of course not, no, sir. Not at all. Now, if you'd like me to explain what you might be referring to.
Q.   Please.
A.   About two years ago, I was inaccurately named as part of an investigation by the State's Securities office. I was not involved in that at all, and it was made very clear, and I've got copies that exonerate me totally from that. But I was no where near involved.

What happened was I referred a client to an individual. I had nothing to do with any of the thing and what happened was the -- this individual unbeknownst to me was under investigation by the Secretary of State's office, and I was offered a cease and desist in the securities transaction. I was not even active in the securities business. I had -- was fully employed with the company that I own presently, had nothing to do with it.

By the time I hired my counsel to get the thing straightened out, it was two weeks later. It cost me a couple thousand dollars, and I was totally exonerated, and I can prove that if need be.
Q.   But that's the basis --
A.   That's the only thing.
Q.   Is that a civil or is that a criminal?
A.   I have no idea what it was. I guess it would be -- it's not criminal I know. But --
THE CHAIRMAN:   That would have been criminal had he been found guilty.
A.   Had I been even named, but, you know, when they order -- they issue a cease and desist telling you not to do something, well, if you're not doing it, then there's no reason to worry about not doing something you're not doing.
Q.   But a cease and desist -- again, you lawyers help me -- what does that mean?
A.   It means --
Q.   Cease and desist doing what?
A.   Well, when I met with Mr. Miles it was "stop it," and I said, "Well, I never did it." "I know, we'll get it straightened out," and they did.
THE CHAIRMAN:   I might say for the committee's information that the SLED background check shows no convictions there.
SENATOR GIESE:   No convictions.
THE CHAIRMAN:   He has no record, yes, sir. That's criminal.
A.   And I might reiterate, too, that what we're talking about, sir, was purely, purely administrative in nature and it -- I mean, I did not even -- it was -- it took me about ten days to get the thing straightened out with the Secretary of State's office.
THE CHAIRMAN:   Further, the Charleston Clerk of Court records shows he has a judgment.
A.   That is correct, sir. I am arguing that judgment with a contractor who performed services on my home.
THE CHAIRMAN:   Lee Building Products for $14,000?
A.   That's exactly right, sir. That's exactly right.
Q.   Got a judgment against him?
A.   That's a judgement against him that the building services is trying to get me to pay. I did not even know that judgment existed until I did the search on this, and I have referred that back to my attorney and that will be taken care of.
THE CHAIRMAN:   Mr. Inabinett.
EXAMINATION BY REPRESENTATIVE INABINETT:
Q.   Mr. Peper, since the Citadel is undergoing some proposed changes?
A.   Yes, sir.
Q.   As it relates to females integrating the corps, have you been involved or has the Board of Visitors been involved in some of the decisions as it relates to females integrating the corps? And if so, can you give us your feelings as it relates --
A.   Be happy to.
Q.   -- to interrogation?
A.   I'll be happy to. We have a -- as a board, we just felt like what we had to do on this particular instance -- and by the way, I am named in the lawsuit. I had the privilege of being elected three years ago by your body, and then two weeks later, the lawsuit came out, so had the election been two weeks later, my name would not have been on there.

But nonetheless we have authorized our legal counsel to do whatever he felt we needed to do within the letter of the law. We have appealed it now to the Fourth Circuit. It's been given back to the District Court to come up with a parallel program. We will do whatever we are told to do and whatever the final decision is, is what we will uphold.
Q.   Could you relate more to first person than the board --
A.   My experience.
Q.   -- as a whole?
A.   The board as a whole, my experience, sir?
Q.   Yes. Yes, your feelings.
A.   My feelings on it is I support diversity in education, and I don't think that the state should make every school for everything all the time. I think that we have certain situations where I want equal opportunity, but by the same token, I also think that the stand that we are taking in the seeking of diversity of the education I think is a very modernistic approach to education. And I support that.
Q.   Thank you, sir.
REPRESENTATIVE LITTLEJOHN:   Mr. Chairman.
THE CHAIRMAN:   Mr. Littlejohn.
EXAMINATION BY REPRESENTATIVE LITTLEJOHN:
Q.   Are you telling us that you favor women in the corps then, Mr. Peper?
A.   Personally, I do not, sir. I favor the existing admissions practice, and I have voted for that as it's on the record. However, I will state that if told by the Fourth Circuit and/or the District Court, wherever it finally stops, we will do whatever we have to do, sir.
THE CHAIRMAN:   Any other questions for the Colonel? Senator Glover.
SENATOR GLOVER:   Yes.
EXAMINATION BY SENATOR GLOVER:
Q.   Mr. Peper, presently serving as a board member, what do you think that you have brought to the Citadel, and then we'll get to my second question on affirmative action?
A.   Okay.
Q.   But tell --
A.   What I have brought to -- prior to my election, obviously, I am the second youngest member on the board. The Citadel board historically has been one of more mature in age gentlemen. There are two things that I have brought. I brought what I considered to be a fresh new look to it, from an age standpoint, from a business standpoint as well.

I'm not in the retired state. I'm still an active business man. But more importantly than that is I am also a field grade officer in the United States Marine Corps Reserves, and I am the only member on the board that's presently in the Reserves, and I do a lot of work with the ROTC programs as far as advising them, which courses they need to be taking to prepare to go to flight school as I did and -- and other educational opportunities.

Going back to the funding, I might throw in that I attended the Citadel on a full ROTC scholarship, three and a half years. But I was also able to work a paper route. I delivered The Post and Courier for my four years there.

But I think when you go back to the funding, Mr. Inabinett, I think we need to stop cutting. I think we just -- the cutting is cut. There ain't more cutting to be there. What we need to do is find out where we're going to get more money to pay for this education. I think what we ought to be doing is looking at alternative sources of revenue earmarked for education as opposed to keep trying to figure how we're going to get by on a percentage formula.
Q.   Your service as -- during your time as a member of the Board of Visitors, have there been any incidences on campus that may have brought your services in question?
A.   No, ma'am. Not at all.
THE CHAIRMAN:   Any other questions.
SENATOR GLOVER:   Yes. One other on the affirmative action.
Q.   Looking at South Carolina and with the information that you just stated on our need for resources and other sources of revenue in this state, how as a board of visitors member, how would you address and answer the question on affirmative action?

There is a need in this state for us to come into the 21st century realizing that multicultural education, diversity is the way for the 21st century. Bearing that in mind, and with your stance for single gender education --
A.   Yes, ma'am.
Q.   -- what about --
A.   I'm going to tell you, I'm very proud of the Citadel board as a collective group, but I'm going to also commend the candidates I've seen today for the South Carolina State board, I've been very impressed. And I could tell you if my service is fortunate to be reelected, the first thing I'm going to do is recommend our president that we have a joint trustee meeting with the Citadel Board and South Carolina State trustees. I've seen some individuals here I think we could really learn some things from today. So I'd like to commend them.

Regarding affirmative action at the Citadel, I don't think anybody is happy where they are. I think everyone is always striving for more. As I tell my son, there's two kinds of people in this world, there's givers and takers, and there's no in between, you're either one or the other, and that's all there is to it. And giving back to the Citadel is my goal.

Going back to the affirmative action question, what I really think, and we're stressing this with our foundation department presently, is that in our recruitment, we specifically are trying to recruit minority African-American professors. Unfortunately, so is everyone else. And there are a lot of schools that are able to pay more than we are.

And one of the things that we're looking at is an added stipend for filling some of those positions. And, so I can't say that -- I want equal for everybody. And I'm very proud of our school and I'm proud of what we've done. Should we be satisfied? No, ma'am, we should not be. We should always be striving for better.
THE CHAIRMAN:   Any others? Thank you, Colonel. Next we have Dennis J. Rhoad.
DENNIS J. RHOAD, having been duly sworn, testified as follows:
MR. RHOAD - EXAMINATION BY THE CHAIRMAN:
Q.   Mr. Rhoad, do you have any health related problems that the screening committee should be made aware of that would prevent you from serving on the board in a full capacity?
A.   No, sir, I don't.
Q.   Considering your present occupation or other activities, would you be able to attend board meetings on a regular basis?
A.   Yes, sir.
Q.   Do you have any interest professionally or personally that would present a conflict of interest because of service on the board?
A.   No, sir.
Q.   Do you now hold any public position of honor or trust that if elected to the board would cause you to violate the dual office holding clause of the constitution?
A.   No, sir.
SENATOR WILSON:   Mr. Chairman.
THE CHAIRMAN:   Senator Wilson.
EXAMINATION BY SENATOR WILSON:
Q.   Mr. Rhoad, what would you propose to promote a four year graduation rate at the Citadel?
A.   Senator Wilson, what I would propose given my background, and I think I've included a brief resume in my information, I teach as an adjunct professor on the Citadel campus now every other semester. I teach a Constitutional Law class, and I believe while the Citadel's four-year graduation rate is excellent, one of the things that I think is being lost at the Citadel and other colleges and universities is the glitter, if you will, of teaching.

I think that a lot of professors spend too much time pursuing their scholarly publication goals and what have you, and as a result of that, I think the emphasis is away from the classroom. And when you have a small student-professor ratio, it's critically important that the classroom be the focus. And I think that a lot of students who might ordinarily be average or mediocre will try even harder and pursue graduation goals even more fiercely if there's a feeling of the professor wants that, wants that graduation. I think that that's one of the things that the Citadel could improve on. Other schools as well.
Q.   Thank you.
THE CHAIRMAN:   Any other questions? Senator Giese.
EXAMINATION BY SENATOR GIESE:
Q.   You made an interesting point about teaching which I certainly agree with you a hundred percent, it should be emphasized more at the college level. Does the Citadel have kind of graduate assistant kind of thing that we have at the university where freshmen and sophomore years you're fortunate if you get a real live fully paid professor teaching you? Do they have graduate students doing some teaching?
A.   No, sir, not at the Citadel. They have some adjunct professors such as myself, but there are no Citadel graduate students teaching in the liberal arts part that I know of. There may be some of that in the physical education department with the fifth year athlete and coaching.
Q.   Thank you.
A.   But not in the liberal arts area.
THE CHAIRMAN:   Mr. Inabinett.
REPRESENTATIVE INABINETT:   Thank you.
EXAMINATION BY REPRESENTATIVE INABINETT:
Q.   Mr. Rhoad, I believe we may have an unsolved situation involving weapon of some sort at the Citadel a year or two ago?
A.   Yes, sir.
Q.   How do you -- will you address the issue of the possibility of students being allowed to legally carry concealed weapons on campus?
A.   Well, under the current Citadel rules you agree not to bring a weapon on campus as a student, as a Citadel cadet, unless you have it registered and it's a hunting weapon. I mean if you want to bring a shotgun home and store it in the Public Safety's office -- Public Safety Department's office you have to get permission for that. And if you're on the pistol team or something, you have a registered weapon along those lines.

If this proposed legislation that I've been reading about is passed, as a lawyer if I was on the board, I would try to look at the law and determine if the Citadel can continue to restrict as a requirement of attending the use of a weapon or the carrying of a weapon. And if they could do so constitutionally, I'd be in favor of continuing that policy. I don't think it's a good idea to have, you know, weapons on campus. I don't even believe a Citadel cadet can without violating the Citadel's rules, and I believe it's possibly an expulsion offense, carry a handgun in his glove compartment even though South Carolina law allows that.
Q.   Thank you, sir.
THE CHAIRMAN:   Senator Glover.
SENATOR GLOVER:   Thank you.
EXAMINATION BY MR. RHOAD:
Q.   Mr. Rhoad, why do you want to serve on the Board of Visitors?
A.   Well, there are several reasons, Senator Glover. I'm young, and I have a wife and one child and another one on the way, and I think that now is a good time for me when I'm active in civic groups and I'm active in my law practice to serve on the Citadel Board of Visitors. I'm not so far removed from having attended the Citadel that I think that gives me some insight perhaps some of the older members on the board don't have.

And in addition to that, the Citadel needs young bright leadership, just like all colleges do, and I'd like to serve my alma mater and lend to them, you know, my experience and my education and my service.
Q.   Your views on affirmative action?
A.   I've been listening to that question, I presume I'm the last one here today, if by affirmative action you mean judging someone on their merit regardless of what race, creed, gender they are, then I'm all in favor of affirmative action.

I think that we could perhaps look at the institution now as well as other institutions and perhaps the people serving those institutions that don't have the same qualifications as someone else might have, I think that an opportunity for someone to excel based upon, you know, one's merit should not be denied anyone at all.
Q.   What are your personal feelings on the Shannon Faulkner situation? How do you feel about the Citadel and the acceptance of Ms. Faulkner?
A.   You're asking my personal feeling? It's interesting that you asked us that because two years ago I ran into the current chairman of the board at the Citadel and he said, "Did you wife have the baby?" And I said yes. He said, "Great." I said, "Well, it's the class of 2018" or whatever. And he said "Oh, you had a son." And I said, "No, I had a daughter." And so he laughed and I laughed.

However, personally, having graduated from the Citadel and having seen the success rate and successes of the Citadel, I personally believe that the small, single gender environment would be changed dramatically and because of that, I'm not in favor of Ms. Faulkner attending the Citadel. However, as an adjunct professor teaching constitutional law, I'm a bit surprised by the Fourth Circuit's Court of Opinion. In fact, I thought they would probably say, you know, to the Citadel you need to admit Ms. Faulkner. And if, of course, that happened, I'm sure as a board member, I would as the other board members follow the court's order.

What the court's done now though is they've put us in a situation obviously where they've said okay, you can either admit Ms. Faulkner or you can try to come up with a parallel program, whatever that may be. But personally, I would be in favor of it remaining the way it is, single gender because I've done some research in the -- into the empirical study about single gender education, and it is a fact that -- I mean an undisputed fact regardless of what side of the constitutional issue you fall, that single gender education, you know, has great returns and great merits and I'm afraid that, you know, we'd lose some of that. It's not personal against Ms. Faulkner. It would be the changing of the single gender nature.
Q.   So your firstborn is now out of her Citadel education?
A.   Well, now, you didn't ask me that question.
Q.   No, you mentioned it. I just wanted to know.
A.   I -- that would be a very difficult thing if my daughter wanted to attend the Citadel. I'm not sure how I would approach that. I've got 16 years, though.
Q.   Yes.
THE CHAIRMAN:   Mr. Littlejohn.
EXAMINATION BY REPRESENTATIVE LITTLEJOHN:
Q.   Mr. Rhoad, as you know many Citadel cadets carry swords?
A.   Yes, sir.
Q.   If we pass this gun law, do you think a Citadel senior would treat a weapon, a pistol, any different than he would a sword?
A.   Is that assuming that --
Q.   That's assuming they could carry inside --
A.   -- you would be able to carry a gun?
Q.   Yes, sir.
A.   I would hope that the average Citadel cadet would treat a handgun more carefully.
Q.   But you know they would, don't you?
A.   I beg your pardon.
Q.   You know they would treat their pistol or weapon the same as they would the sword?
A.   I would hope so, yes, sir. The reason --
Q.   You don't know that being a Citadel graduate?
A.   Well, you know, I've learned not to answer, you know, yes and no being a lawyer. But I would believe that and I would hope that would be the case.
THE CHAIRMAN:   Any other questions? Thank you, Mr. Rhoad.
A.   Thank you.
THE CHAIRMAN:   That completes our screening process of all candidates who were opposed. The unopposed were exempted. Do I hear a motion?
REPRESENTATIVE INABINETT:   Mr. Chairman, I move that all candidates screened today be reported as qualified, certified to --
THE CHAIRMAN:   Mr. Inabinett moves that all candidates heard today be reported as qualified? Hear a second.
REPRESENTATIVE LITTLEJOHN:   Second.
THE CHAIRMAN:   Mr. Littlejohn second. All in favor say aye, no --
SENATOR GLOVER:   No. Question.
THE CHAIRMAN:   Yes, ma'am. Senator.
SENATOR GLOVER:   Mr. Stoddard, I'm concerned that during the course of our screening that we have lost many of the voting members for -- to declare a candidate. I'd like to know if you think it's possible for us as a committee to come back maybe at a later time to --
THE CHAIRMAN:   Well, we could do that, but with Mr. Giese's proxy that would be give us a majority. And he left that with me.
SENATOR GLOVER:   I have some concerns about some candidates and could not vote for all of them to be --
THE CHAIRMAN:   Well, if you would withdraw your motion.
REPRESENTATIVE INABINETT:   Withdrawn.
THE CHAIRMAN:   I'll accept the motion. We'll meet at 9:30 in the morning.
SENATOR GLOVER:   That would be fine.
THE CHAIRMAN:   All in favor say aye, opposed no. The ayes have it. Thank you for coming.
(There being nothing further, the proceedings concluded at 11:00 a.m.)

This is to certify that the proceedings, consisting of ninety-five (95) pages, is a true and correct transcript of the proceedings; said proceedings were reported by the method of Stenotype with Backup.

I further certify that I am neither employed by nor related to any of the parties in this matter or their counsel; nor do I have any interest, financial or otherwise, in the outcome of same.

IN WITNESS WHEREOF I have hereunto set my hand and seal this 26th day of April, 1995.

/s/Elaine M. Boyd
Certified Court Reporter (ID)
Notary Public for South Carolina
My commission Expires: March 9, 2002

The Committee met at 9:30 a.m. and all members were present. Upon a motion of Rep. Inabinett, seconded by Rep. Littlejohn, the committee met in executive session at the request of Col. Stephen Peper, an incumbent candidate for the Citadel Board. The Chairman then recognized Mr. Peper who stated "Gentlemen, I have enjoyed serving on the Citadel Board but due to pressing business interests and loyalty to my family, there just is not enough time to serve my alma mater that I love so much. At this time I would like to withdraw from the race." Rep. Inabinett moved that the Committee accept his withdrawal, seconded by Senator Giese. The motion carried unanimously. Senator Wilson moved that the committee rise. The Committee then repeated its actions taken in executive session. Upon motion of Rep. Littlejohn, the Committee adjourned.

(On motion of Senator WILSON, with unanimous consent, ordered printed in the Journal of Monday, May 8, 1995)

At 11:19 A.M., on motion of Senator LANDER, the Senate adjourned to meet Tuesday, May 9, 1995, at 12:00 Noon.

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