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The public hearing is intended to bring out all the elements of pro and con for regulation. I know that in hearings that involve DHEC regulations, there are typically environmental groups who are all in favor of more regulations and industrial groups who want less regulation. I hesitate to predict in advance what is going to be reasonable in a given case.
Q. What has been your method of separating your work for the State and your efforts to obtain this position? How have you done that?
A. Make sure I've got a leave slip on file every time I come over here.
Q. Excuse me?
A. Make sure I have a leave slip on file every time I come over here and I -- if -- only take time off from work to campaign when my work load allows it.
Q. And have you ever been held in contempt or sanctioned by a court for any reason?
A. No, ma'am.
Q. And have you ever been the subject of a disciplinary action arising out of your public employment?
A. No, ma'am.
Q. Have you sought directly or indirectly the pledge of a legislator's vote for this job?
A. No, ma'am.
Q. And are you aware of any solicitation that was perhaps done without your authorization or your request of a legislator or a legislator's vote for you?

That's something I've worked on at DHEC. I have a -- we have court orders going back to 1975. I anticipate starting such a system here.
Q. That's all.
THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you. Senator McConnell.
EXAMINATION BY SENATOR MCCONNELL:
Q. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Have you sought the endorsement of any group of members of the General Assembly or of any caucus of the General Assembly?
A. No, sir.
Q. Have you participated in a formalized interview process other than with the Bar Association and with this committee?
A. No, sir.
Q. Have you directly or indirectly had any meetings or conversations pertaining to your candidacy with members of the Bar Screening Committee, Bar employees or lobbyists representing the Bar either before you were screened or after you were screened, but prior to the Bar's screening report being made public?
A. I was first contacted by the Bar and I cannot remember now whether it was a phone call or a letter asking me to submit a copy of the materials that I submitted to this committee and also the names of five other references.

I got a call on Monday, the 4th, asking me to appear for an interview on Wednesday, the 7th. I met Betsy Gray and Bob Erwin and Gwen Fuller at the Bar offices on Wednesday, the 7th.

Okay, the date you were first contacted by the Bar representative was Monday, the 4th, you said?
A. I got a call before that asking me to submit the documentation.
Q. So what day were you first contacted by the Bar?
A. I really don't remember.
Q. All right.
A. If I got a letter, I can find it, but I don't -- wasn't prepared to answer that question. I'm not sure I brought that file.
Q. Where did the interview take place? I think you said the Bar office?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. How many interviewers participated in your interview?
A. There were three individuals that I identified were in the room.
Q. Do you know what part of the state they reside?
A. I believe Betsy Gray lives in Columbia. I don't know about the other two.
Q. Do you have any previous acquaintance with any of the interviewers?
A. I believe I've seen Ms. Gray in either court or in Bar -- in Richland meetings, but I didn't know any of the three of them.
Q. And you say you did furnish the list of references?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Five, you said?
A. Yes.
Q. Were they contacted to your knowledge?
A. Some of them were.
Q. But not all? You don't know?
A. I don't know.
Q. But you knew -- you have some knowledge that some of the five you referenced, somebody was contacted?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. And when and how were you notified of the results?
A. I got a letter Monday.

(A short break was taken)
HE CHAIRMAN: Our next applicant is Selma Thorn Jones. Ms. Jones is seated in front of us. If you will raise your right hand please.
SELMA THORN JONES, having been duly sworn, testified as follows:
THE CHAIRMAN: Have you had a chance to review the Personal Data Questionnaire summary?
MS. JONES: Yes, I have.
THE CHAIRMAN: And is that correct?
MS. JONES: Yes, it is.
THE CHAIRMAN: Are there any amendments that need to be made?
MS. JONES: Not to that.
THE CHAIRMAN: Is there any objection to making the Summary a part of the record of your sworn testimony?
MS. JONES: No objection.

1. Selma Thorn Jones
Home Address: Business Address:
2410 Duncan Street P. O. Box 1987
Columbia, SC 29205 Columbia, SC 29202

2. She was born in Greenwood, South Carolina on June 21, 1955. She is presently 38 years old.

4. She is single.

5. Military Service: N/A

6. She attended Emory University, 1973-1977, B.A.; the University of Arizona, Summer 1973, returned to Emory University; the University of South Carolina Law School, 1977-1980, J.D.

8. Legal/Judicial education during the past five years:
During the past five years continuing legal education consists of seminars on evidence and trial techniques. In 1989, she attended the National College of District Attorneys' Trial Advocacy Course in Los Angeles, California for a week-long seminar.

9. Taught or Lectured:

Family Court Seminar lecturer - SC Bar, CLE Division, Child Protection - The Court and the Process - 1981

Reserve Officers Training Instructor - Abbeville Police Department - 1983

Solicitor's Office Training Team - She instructed new Assistant Solicitors on basic trial technique and case management - 1993

10. Published Books and Articles: Co-Author - "Synopsis of Selected Statutes Relating to Child Abuse and Neglect," South Carolina Children's Code (G11-G19)

1980-1983 Family Court - DSS abuse and neglect cases and juvenile prosecution
1983-1987 Supervisor of Family Court Lawyers, General Sessions caseload, including felony cases
1987-1988 Family Court and Civil Practice, Office of Kermit King
1988-1991 General Sessions caseload
1992-1993 Instructor of Training Team in Fifth Circuit Solicitor's Office

13. Rating in Martindale-Hubbell:1985, BV

14. Frequency of appearances in court:
Federal - none
State - weekly
Other -

15. Percentage of litigation:
Civil - 5% (CPNJ) (Criminal Magistrate Appeals)
Criminal - 95%
Domestic -

16. Percentage of cases in trial courts:
Jury - 90%
Non-Jury - 10%

Sole Counsel

17. Five (5) of the most significant litigated matters in either trial or appellate court:
(a) State v. Duane Mitchell; first DNA case tried in Richland County General Sessions; co-counsel.
(b) State v. Rantley Johnson; 427 S.E.2d 718 (1993); sole counsel; cited in South Eastern Reporter System.
(c) State v. John Allen Butler; first murder case she tried as sole counsel; January 27 and 28, 1982.
(d) Co-counsel on five death penalty cases, including State v. Elmore, 332 S.E.2d 762, 286 S.C. 70 Cert. Gr. and vacated. Elmore v. South Carolina, 106 S.Ct. 1942, 476 U.S. 1101

18. Five (5) civil appeals:
(a) She argued once before the South Carolina Supreme Court. She represented the Respondent. The matter was affirmed. She handled the case for another attorney who was not available for the argument. He had written the brief.
(b) She wrote one Appellate Brief while employed at Kermit King's office. The matter was settled before argument. It was a domestic relations appeal.

22. Public Office: She has been an Assistant Solicitor for 12 years.

45. Bar Associations and Professional Organizations:
South Carolina Bar Association; Richland County Bar Association

46. Civic, charitable, educational, social and fraternal organizations:
She was more active in civic matters while living in Greenwood. She is a member of good standing of Trinity Cathedral. She has been a Laubac tutor for adults learning to read. This summer she was a leader in the production of an animation film project for youth.

47. She is honest, fair and diligent. She is independent and has much legal experience.

48. Five (5) letters of recommendation:
(a) Terry G. Cline, Jr., Loan Officer
The First Savings Bank
2001 Assembly Street, Suite 204, Columbia, SC 29201-2153
251-3110
(b) Hugh S. Roberts, Esquire
P. O. Box 11893, Columbia, SC 29211
252-3121

The Board of Commissioners on Grievances and Discipline has reported that no formal complaints have ever been filed against you. The records of the applicable law enforcement agencies, the Richland County Sheriff's Office, the Columbia City Police Department, SLED and FBI records, are all negative. The judgment Rolls of Richland County are negative. Federal court records are negative. No complaints have been received. No witnesses are present to testify against you.

At this time, we'll allow you the opportunity if you so desire to give a brief opening statement, followed by questions by Ms. McNamee.
MS. JONES: Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and I will briefly, although some of these may be questions that you would ask me, I don't know. You may have a different set of questions. You've altered them a little from candidate to candidate.

First, let me thank you for the opportunity to come before you. Last year as the old way of doing things became unsatisfactory, ya'll, the State Legislature, worked quickly to restore public trust and creating new avenues for administrative review. My understanding of this law is to promote efficiency, fairness and professionalism.

I come before you today offering myself as a candidate for that position. I feel that I have qualities of honesty, industry and intelligence which would enable me to effectively serve in this public position.

I believe there to be three areas that you would be looking for experience. One, the legal area, I have been 12 years in the Solicitor's Office, the executive branch of government. I have been in courtrooms for all of that time.

I did serve one year in civil practice and although I only have one year civil practice, that was under the Kermit King, one of the finest lawyers in the state.

Administrative skills are certainly required for this position. In the Solicitor's office, originally I worked in the Family Court area where I was responsible for dockets in four counties with the Department of Youth Services, the Department of DSS and I alone was responsible for that. Later as the case loads increased, I became in charge of other lawyers who were responsible for that. I've also been responsible for General Sessions dockets and dockets that included a thousand cases.

I have -- I'm currently managing the training team in the Solicitor's office which was started under this administration by me and I've had to deal with nine lawyers under my supervision. Including in those nine lawyers are some private lawyers, not only the public sector lawyers because there is also another program which Solicitor Harpootlian started which allows private attorneys to serve an internship in the Solicitor's office without pay, only giving their services which I have been responsible for. That was kicked off last year.

And, of course, the last area would be integrity which as ya'll began to -- as this new division is developed, I'm sure that professionalism is what our Legislature was looking for and I think I possess some independence that would allow me to serve in that capacity.

Now I'll thank you for the opportunity to speak to you and I will answer any questions that you may have.
THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Ms. Jones. Ms. McNamee.
MS. JONES - EXAMINATION BY MS. MCNAMEE:
Q. Ms. Jones, what is the appropriate demeanor for a judge?
A. I think a judge first and foremost should probably be courteous. I thought about that and I do think patience used to be the best and maybe that's the -- covers everything speaking of patience, but recently there has been concern among the Bar when judges are not courteous to other lawyers.

In this state -- every judge in this state has been a lawyer prior to becoming a judge, at least those that
their requirement is to be a judge. The Magistrates are not required to be -- I mean, judges that are required to be lawyers, which is different.

Sometimes we've had people become judges for -- upon graduation from law school, but in our state generally judges have been lawyers before and I think the Bar is concerned about judges on the bench not being courteous to other lawyers and having served in a courtroom, I

They should be kind. They should be fair. They should be firm, but courteous. I think it's important to maintain respect in a courtroom.
Q. And I think you did talk about this in your opening statement, but are these the qualities and the demeanor of a Solicitor which is your experience, and if not, how do you resolve all that?
A. All right, at times they are, but not always. As a solicitor, there are times that I have had to be rather dogmatic in my approach. At work if we have a huge volume of cases that we're responsible for moving, a solicitor has a quasi-judicial aspect to the job initially.

When you receive a case, you must determine whether or not the facts warrant proceeding with the case. Once the quasi-judicial determination is made and you proceed with the case, then you step into the shoes of an advocate and you become someone who is there to present the case to the court and you would be required to act zealously and I have in the past, but I think those are all qualities of a good solicitor.

A judge is not an advocate of a position. The judge is there to interpret the law and enforce the law as a judge and to listen to -- both a solicitor and a judge are there to interpret the law and as a lawyer, they're often times -- any lawyer has to interpret the law to make decisions, but as a lawyer you're an advocate. You're trying to advocate a particular position. As a judge, you're there to hear both sides and to be fair.
Q. I would agree that a solicitor has a very stressful job. I would agree that probably these ALJs are going to have very stressful jobs, also. I just wondered how do you deal with that stress. You as a solicitor now, how do you deal with stress and --
A. Well --
Q. Because it's going to --
A. Stress. I think organization is the key to deal with matters, to try to look for problems that may arise and resolve them. I'm not sure I understand your question. If you can ask that another --
Q. Well, stress is a part of a lawyer's life, I guess, and as a solicitor, you certainly have to operate every day under a lot of stress. The stresses of the chief ALJ's job will be different, but they're going to be there, too.

It gets into your -- the management skills and how you plan to organize your office, if you want to get into that, too. How do you plan to be the --
A. Well, we --

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