| Printed Page 180, Jan. 13 | Printed Page 200, Jan. 13 |

Why pick -- I guess what I'm saying, what do you know that tells me that Judge Harwell controls Judge Cottingham any more than he would control any of those other people?
A. There is nothing I can tell you that would make you believe that this is indeed to be true, but I certainly feel that.
Q. And I understand that. And I'm not -- please understand, I'm not taking exception with your heartfelt feelings. I'm trying to find something that brings the attention of this Committee facts that will say, well, Judge Cottingham had a problem. He had a conflict of interest.
A. Right.
Q. Or that somebody told him what to do, but from what you're telling me, everybody complied with the law. Everybody that had a conflict of interest got out of the way and it got down to finding the closest person and it was Judge Cottingham and that's who they sent?
A. The only thing I see problem with is that during the trial, Judge Cottingham patronized all of us women. Led us to believe during the trial that just by chance, a thread of chance, he might be on our side.

He might be seeing what this man did was wrong and he might be able to a correct conviction by what this man did was wrong, but by the end of the trial and when he came up with the sentences, it was like listening to a man talk out of two sides of his mouth. One side, he was saying yes,

If he cannot make a decision and say this man did wrong even though he is a judge, he did wrong and he should pay for it just like any other man. I don't believe he walked away --
Q. Let me ask you this, Ms. Palmer. Did he have a problem making a decision as to what was right or wrong in your opinion or was the problem in handing down a severe enough sentence? Did he correctly identify the crime that was committed?
A. As I said before, and I'll repeat myself, this man was talking out of two sides of his mouth. One minute he would say, yes, this man did very wrong and the next minute, he was saying because of this and this situation, evidently, it's okay for this man to do what he did.
Q. And please follow along with me, did he -- it seems like from what you're telling me that he correctly identified the bad behavior of Judge Lee, that -- and I see you're referring to transcript now perhaps that he went through and talked about here's what he did wrong and then he got to the point of sentencing and he talked about mitigating factors. At that point, he's probably talking about some aggravating factors as well and then he came down with a decision.

If I were to tell you that that happens in courthouses across the state every day in every sentencing hearing, would you believe me?
A. Yes, I would believe you. I think there is a lot going on especially in South Carolina that until you're in the situation and you feel it --
Q. But I guess --
A. -- you wouldn't believe it, but, yes, you do want to.

If he is making this type of judgment on his own, as far as I'm concerned he lacks integrity. He should not be up there on the bench. If he's taking orders from somebody else, he needs to look at what's going on, is this right or is this wrong, not what somebody else is telling him what to do.

The majority of people -- and you can tell by the various articles that I sent to you, there is a large majority of people in Horry County that have definitely lost faith in the judicial system. They have definitely lost faith in how Judge Cottingham is going to deal with a public official.

I don't think we need someone like that in Horry County making decisions. He stated that he was harsher with public officials, that he incarcerated an auditor who was 67 years old for three years. I believe he was 55. He didn't steal money, but he stole something a lot more. He

We far outnumbered those who were in support of Lee, but yet we got nothing for what we went through. I've already told you how I feel about Lee's wife being an invalid. I don't feel that she is. I got up one time. Judge Cottingham did ask us all to speak should we chose to. I chose to and I did ask for maximum 35 years which is what Ralph Wilson said was the law on a case like this. 35 year maximum time was a long time, but there ought to be a standard. There ought to be something said here letting people know that we're not going to put up with this anymore. It's time this stops. If we have to have someone to be a scapegoat, Judge Lee should have been it.
Q. Ms. Palmer, you spoke about the Solicitor a couple of times. I take it, this was a plea rather than an actual trial that resulted in a sentencing; is that right?
A. This was -- I'm not really sure what you call it. This was a man going up there pleading no contest --
Q. Right. And I --
A. -- which should be thrown out of court. You shouldn't be allowed to plead no contest. You're either guilty or you're not.
Q. I take it that the Solicitor was involved in this process of the plea being entered?
A. There again, myself as a victim was not told that that type of plea was going to come forward. I knew nothing about that until I heard it. It was very shocking. I'm afraid I would have had to stand up if I had --
Q. The Solicitor did not brief you on what he intended to do or --
A. No. Not at all.
Q. I'm sorry. Please go ahead.
A. And I just also feel that Judge Cottingham's in his particular hometown and surrounding area is harsh, then he should not have been quite so lenient with Judge Lee. That's basically all I have to say. I thank you for your time.
Q. Ms. Palmer, the Members of the Committee may have some questions for you and I want to say I very much appreciate you coming forward today.
A. Thank you.

I just want to ask on follow-up question and make sure I understood your answer because I was trying to follow the three points that Counsel had raised. If I understand correctly that besides that newspaper article, you have no direct evidence of any relationship between Judge Cottingham and any one of those public officials or figures in particular, this instance, former Judge Lee? You have no proof of any formal relationship?
A. Other than what Ralph Wilson himself told me, no, I don't.

I would like to go through some of the more perfunctory aspects in terms of your name, address, et cetera. Would you please state your full name into the record and your address?
A. My name Rachael Ashley Dain. I reside at 6208B Blynn Drive, Myrtle Beach, South Carolina, Horry County.
Q. And your occupation is?
A. I'm a microsystem integrator and programmer.
Q. Ms. Dain, would you under the same conditions I expressed to Ms. Palmer, please express in the broadest terms the reasons you're here today to testify against Judge Cottingham.

I went into the courtroom with the expectations that probably nothing would happen because public officials seem to look out after each other. That happens time and time again. Sometimes it's real and sometimes it just may be perceived as such because it does happen so often and I really didn't expect much of anything to happen.

Judge Cottingham gave the victims the opportunity to speak in front of him and I took that opportunity and I told him how I felt and he really moved me to believe that I was actually going to find justice in this place. And I was very relaxed and I looked at the other individuals that were sitting next to me, they were victims, and I said, you know what, this isn't going to go away. This is not going to go away. This is too serious. This man is going to do something about this. I believe in him.

He said that he had not made a decision because I had mentioned something to the fact that I thought he probably had already made a decision. One of the things that he did at the time which impressed me a great deal is after he listened to both sides of the story, he pushed himself

I was sitting very close to him. Probably about as close as I am to you and I watched his every move very intensely at this point because I was trying to read him and understand what he was going to say. As he -- at that time, he was using a deal of hand language, body language while he was making these -- this discussion.

He began to delivering the sentence and then Ralph Wilson who is our Solicitor interrupted him and said, oh, Judge, I would also like for you to include something along the lines of Judge Lee having to pay for therapy should any of the victims need that. And right as he started to say that, Judge Cottingham reached over to the right-hand side of his desk or bench, whatever you want to call it, and picked up a piece of paper that was about the size of a small note pad and began to say, "Yes, that's the next thing I have to comment on." And then he said something about that. And I was there and I saw that he was clearly referring to this piece of paper and he was reading off of it and I don't understand how it is that he had not made a decision prior to entering the courtroom. What is he referencing? Why is he referencing this information off of a piece of paper that I know he has not written since he started this decision making process because he has not touched a pen or pencil and I cannot think of any reason -- logical reason why he would have that information on a piece of paper if he had not already given some consideration to what his decision would be prior to hearing what went on in the courtroom which he told me he did not do.
Q. Well, let's do this, let's ask him that in few minutes.
A. Yes.
Q. Let's move on with your testimony and let's find out the answer to your question.
A. Also the transcript where he clearly says in here that he holds Judge Lee to a higher standard, because he was a judge and he committed these offenses, yet he assaulted 18 women, he got a suspended sentence and then he got his probation suspended as I understand it and if he was being held to a higher standard then what would the standard have been if a layperson had done something like this, and if the standard is that low, then I think we have a problem above and beyond bias toward political figures.

| Printed Page 180, Jan. 13 | Printed Page 200, Jan. 13 |