Journal of the House of Representatives
of the Second Session of the 110th General Assembly
of the State of South Carolina
being the Regular Session Beginning Tuesday, January 11, 1994

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| Printed Page 2450, Feb. 24 | Printed Page 2470, Feb. 24 |
Printed Page 2460 . . . . . Thursday, February 24, 1994
There is a lot of times when I go do something, I go and put a word up on the board and when I say this word this is what it means and I guess I don't mind even accepting that as a mistake that I should not have done it in that form. I don't have a problem with that.

But the only thing that I would have a problem with anybody saying oh, he was feeling that I had some devious method of doing something devious in mind because that was not my intention.
Q. Yes, sir, and I say I believe that. Mr. Saunders, let me ask you, you said that the debts of -- mostly were debts of your company, WPAL?
A. Yes.
Q. Aren't you the owner, president and general manager of WPAL?
A. Yes.
Q. Are you the person responsible for maintaining the books and paying the debts of WPAL?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. And you have been since 1981, I believe?
A. Not until 1985, '86.
Q. Asking you again about your political involvement, have you been involved in any political campaigns? There is nothing wrong with that, but political campaigns in the last four or six years as far as donating to any candidates, to present members of the General Assembly or helping in their campaigns?
A. No, I haven't.
Q. That's all I have, Mr. Chairman.
EXAMINATION BY REPRESENTATIVE WILKES:
Q. If I may, I'm going to maybe try to expound a little bit back to the letter again, and, admittedly there are vagaries in the law and in the English language as well.

In reading directly from the statute, Section 813-930, it does not mention the word support. It says, "No candidate for an office elected by the General Assembly may seek directly the pledge of the member of the General Assembly's vote until the qualifications of all the candidates of the office have been determined appropriate by the review committee."

The word"formal" to me in this letter is more of a mitigating word than it is a condemning word in that I like Senator Jackson, it -- initially feel like this is a formal announcement of my candidacy and I -- and you don't say directly seeking anyone's vote.

If it was not your intent to ask for a vote, then I certainly can accept that that was what was in your mind. Making -- also making you aware that this is very close to a request for a vote, but I will say not necessarily a request for a vote.

Printed Page 2461 . . . . . Thursday, February 24, 1994
Would you tell us, would it be fair to say that this was more your formal announcement of your candidacy and you're asking for people to help you in any way that they can without regard to votes or anything else, but just support? In other words, could I support your candidacy without pledging my vote? I think I could probably do that. I could say, yes, I support your right to be a candidate without telling you that I'm going to give you a vote. So if this letter were directed to me and I received it in that vein, would I be on the same wavelength with you?
A. Yes, sir. You know, I've done -- well, petitioned candidates, for instance, in order to run, they need a signature. I'll support by signing his petition, but I'm not going to vote for this -- for that person but he has the right to have a petition. That's the kind of thing that I meant. It was a formal candidacy for me. That's what I meant.
Q. All right, sir. May I ask you a few questions again about the debts, specific questions. There was a mention of an IRS lien that was filed against WPAL, Incorporated. Was that for income taxes due or was that for payroll trust withholding payroll taxes?
A. It was payroll tax.
Q. Payroll taxes. But you did subsequently settle that?
A. Yes.
Q. Are there any outstanding debts to the Internal Revenue Service from WPAL at the present time?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Or to the South Carolina Tax Commission?
A. There are some.
Q. Can you explain to us?
A. I don't know how -- it's nothing -- there is nothing big outstanding, but there are some that are owed to the IRS and the State tax.
Q. Would that also be in the payroll trust withholding area?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Is WPAL, Incorporated solvent now? Is it making its debt service and making its payroll?
A. It is making it. It is not making a profit at this time. An AM station -- and again, I alluded to the deregulation and that some of the problems that came along with that. It is not doing that well, but it has
-- we have enough assets to cover anything like that.

We have 33 acres of property, prime waterfront property that goes around WPAL, Incorporated and some other things there that we could liquidate if we had to, so we are in a pretty solvent position in that area.

We're looking at some of that -- the other thing that's important to us right now is the FM station and the combination of the two stations.

Printed Page 2462 . . . . . Thursday, February 24, 1994
Q. If you were to be elected to the Public Service Commission, Mr. Saunders, what would your continuing relationship be with WPAL, Inc.?
A. How do you mean that, sir?
Q. Would you continue to retain your ownership? Will you --
A. Yeah.
Q. I guess the point I'm trying to make or the question I'm trying to ask, would it be such a distraction to you given the financial difficulties and maybe the struggle that you now have with the company, would it be a distraction to you if you were to become a member of this Public Service Commission?
A. Not at all, sir. And I gave that a lot of thought before I got involved in this. That would not be a distraction at all.
Q. So would these debts, then would they settle themselves? I mean it seems that if you are the chief executive officer and the general manager of the station, then you have a fiduciary responsibility to that corporation to make sure that its function is continued to be carried out, that its debts are paid and its payroll is made and its taxes are paid. So are you going to make sure that all of those things are done and taken care of prior to your election as a commissioner or will it continue to be something that will nag at you or require your attention or is there someone else that could step into your shoes and take that responsibility?
A. Well, there is some -- and I mentioned a little bit earlier, there is lady there that's been in that position longer than myself. And also we would bring in somebody else, but most important part of this whole thing with the radio business is sales, which I don't do.

And changing our sales to an FM station and bringing a couple more people and that would be someone bringing in the money. That's something I would like to keep on doing, but it would not be a problem for me at all, sir. It's --
REPRESENTATIVE WILKES: Is there anything else? Does anyone have a question for this candidate? Mr. Couick.
RE-EXAMINATION BY MR. COUICK:
Q. Mr. Chairman, one follow up. And I'm sorry, I misunderstood a comment earlier about the IRS lien and would ask more about it. The $26,976 lien that was established in May, 1991 and recently verified by the credit reporting agency in April of last year, what is the annual payroll of WPAL?
A. I think it's about 230,000 or something like that.
Q. So the payroll taxes are approximately $27,000, which I'm sure includes some interest and penalties. What period of time does that represent nonpayment of payroll taxes?

Printed Page 2463 . . . . . Thursday, February 24, 1994
A. That one from -- you're talking about probably two quarters or something like that.
Q. And the two quarters would be sometime prior to May,
'91. Do you recall the time?
A. That was before '90. It really was the time going back when we started having problem with the Hugo. But Hugo is when we really end up in a pretty bad situation.

We were the only station on the air after Hugo. Business just went to hell after that because there were no people to advertise, so it was back during that particular time that we weren't able --
Q. And one final question, Mr. Saunders, do you receive advertising from public utilities? Does SCE&G or Southern Bell or anything like that advertise with you?
A. Yes. SCE&G advertises sometimes. Southern Bell, sometimes. And those advertisements, again, does not come directly to us. Southern Bell, for instance, have an ad agency that come out of New York or out of Atlanta. SCE&G comes from some place else. There are salespersons that handles those things.
Q. Would there be -- would you consider it would be a conflict of interest if you were serving on the Public Service Commission and, I take it, the largest shareholder of WPAL as president, as a compensated officer, receiving advertising dollars from regulated utilities?
A. No, sir.
Q. How about if -- how much does Southern Bell, for instance, spend now on advertising a year with WPAL?
A. They used to spend probably about three to $4,000 a year.
Q. If that -- if you were elected tomorrow and come July, you took your seat and that shot up to be $50,000 a year, would that cause you any concern?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. What do you think is your role to make sure that there is no conflict?
A. That is something that we could not accept. You're talking about something changing like that, that would not be accepted. We just would not accept that financial --
Q. Would that be something that you feel like would be necessary to report on your financial interest statement that sort of thing?
A. Well, however the reporting system is, that would be reported. But we would not even accept that. I would make that a part of my station policy.
Q. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
SENATOR JACKSON: Mr. Chairman?

Printed Page 2464 . . . . . Thursday, February 24, 1994
RE-EXAMINATION BY SENATOR JACKSON:
Q. Mr. Saunders, let me follow up with what counsel just asked you here. In fact, if you run into a problem as a commissioner with the utility company that's regulated by the commission, would you be willing to give up the advertising dollars that that utility company is putting into your radio station to avoid the appearance of a conflict of interest?
A. Yes.
Q. So you would be willing to it give up?
REPRESENTATIVE WILKES: Are there any other questions from the committee? Ms. Hatton.
EXAMINATION BY DOCTOR HATTON:
Q. I came in a little late, but I would like to know from all of these involvements, sir, what consultative advice you might seek to assist you in your role as a commissioner if you were elected?

It seems to me that there have been matters of interpretation and compliance with regulations that have been problems over a period of time. What consultative advise might you seek and from whom to assist you in playing the proper role as a commissioner if you were elected?
A. At this point, ma'am, I don't know. I would -- I'm assuming that there are people that is already set up to do those kinds of things. Again, that's the kind of supportive role that I'm looking for that somebody -- and listen in the State Carolina to help commissioners do those kinds of things.
REPRESENTATIVE WILKES: Thank you. Are there any further questions for the candidate? If not, Mr. Saunders, thank you so much for your time and you may be excused.
A. Thank you.

PERSONAL DATA QUESTIONNAIRE SUMMARY

1. William "Bill" Saunders

Home Address: Business Address:

P.O. Box 36 1717 Wappoo Road or

Johns Island, SC 29455 P.O. Box 30999

Charleston, SC 29407

or 29417

2. He was born in New York on February 14, 1935.

Social Security Number: ***-**-****.

3. S.C. Driver's License Number: *********.

S.C. Voter Registration Number: 0 195 448.

Printed Page 2465 . . . . . Thursday, February 24, 1994
4. He married Henrietta J. Saunders in March, 1968. He has 10 children:William Reginald Saunders, Jr., age 38 (Lt. Colonel and Air Force Pilot); Sharon L. Saunders, age 37 (Account Executive, WPAL, Inc.); Loretta J. Saunders, age 36 (Teacher, James Island High School); Kathleen Saunders Green, age 35 (Teacher, Summerville Elementary); Alphea Saunders Adams, age 31 (Teacher, Happy Times); Clinton J. Saunders, age 26 (Student and Pinkerton Security Guard); Gary Saunders, age 33 (Student in Japan); Byron Saunders, age 35 (Army Captain); Myra Saunders Perez, age 31 (Chemical Technician, Albright & Wilson); Tamara Saunders, age 23 (Student and Receptionist, WPAL, Inc.).

5. Military Service: He served in the Korean War as an Army Staff Sergeant (1951-1954). He was honorably discharged.

Serial #: 14402936.

6. He graduated from Laing High School (Mount Pleasant, SC) in 1956; completed a Medical Ethics course at the College of Charleston in Summer, 1973; studied Business Management Training at Southeastern Business College (Charleston, SC) in 1974; and studied Vocational Education through Southern Illinois University's Charleston Extension from 1977 to 1978.

7. He has worked with the following public boards/offices:Office of Economic Opportunity (1966-1970); South Carolina State Human Affairs Commission (1971-1979); Governor's Commission on Emergency Preparedness (1990); Victim Assistance Advisory (1987-present); and the Charleston County Board of Assessment (1990-present).

8. In 1980, he was a Democratic candidate for the South Carolina State Senate, in an at-large race representing Charleston and Georgetown counties. He won the primary and run-off elections but was defeated in the General Election.

9. He worked as a foreman for Weils Mattress Factory from 1956 to 1975 and in Community Relations for Brothers Broadcasting with WPAL, WXVI, & WWWZ from 1971 to 1980. He has worked with the Committee on Better Racial Assurance (COBRA), a human service agency, since 1971 and is the agency's current Executive Director.

Printed Page 2466 . . . . . Thursday, February 24, 1994
10. He has been the President/General Manager of WPAL, Inc. since 1980 and has been the President/General Manager of Gresham Communications, WPAL-FM since 1993.

13. A tax lien procedure relating to his position as President of WPAL, Inc. was instituted by the Internal Revenue Service.

14. He was sued by his former partners in a suit involving WPAL, Inc.

26. Professional organizations: President, South Carolina Broadcasters Association (Member, 1981-present); Trident Chamber of Commerce (1979- present); and President, Rotary International Breakfast Club (Member, 1983-present).

27. Civic, charitable, etc. organizations:Trident Technical College Foundation (1983-present); Charleston Southern University Board of Visitors (1990-present); President, Charleston YMCA (1991); Cities in Schools (1989-present); University of South Carolina Partnership (1990- present); Poverty and Deprivation Advisory Board (1990-present); Spoleto Festival Board of Directors (1990-present); Trident Urban League (1993); Blue Ridge Institute for Southern Executives (1973-present); Lay Speaker/Sunday School, Superintendent for Wesley United Methodist Church on Johns Island.

28. He believes that his work as president and general manager of a broadcasting business that has survived deregulation by the federal government, his political exposure, business affiliations, and human service involvements have given him the skills and experience needed to render him qualified for the position of Public Service Commissioner.

29. Five letters of reference:

(a) Mrs. Marjorie Amos-Frazier

361 Ashley Avenue

Charleston, SC 29403

(803) 723-0054

(b) Mr. Montez C. Martin, Jr.

176 Peachtree Street on the Ashley River

Charleston, SC 29403

(803) 722-1942

Printed Page 2467 . . . . . Thursday, February 24, 1994
(c) Mr. John B. Holloway, Jr.

Senior Vice-President, South Carolina National Bank

P.O. Box 700

Charleston, SC 29402

(803) 724-5018

(d) Mr. David L. Rawle

2 Beaufain Street

P.O. Box 1117

Charleston, SC 29402-1117

(803) 577-7327

(e) Mr. Hugh C. Lane, Jr.

President, The Bank of South Carolina

P.O. Box 538

Charleston, SC 29402

(803) 724-1500

30. He is seeking the position of Public Service Commissioner for the First District.

REPRESENTATIVE WILKES: Our next candidate screening is Mr. Charles E. Schuster.
MR. COUICK: He's on his way down. Mr. Chairman, would you like to take a five-minute a break?
REPRESENTATIVE WILKES: We'll stand in recess for five minutes.

(A short break was taken)
REPRESENTATIVE WILKES: We call ourselves back into order. Mr. Couick.
MR. COUICK: Thank you. Mr. Chairman, the next candidate is Mr. Charles E. Schuster. Mr. Schuster, if you would please stand and take the oath.
CHARLES E. SCHUSTER, having been duly sworn, testified as follows:
MR. SCHUSTER - EXAMINATION BY MR. COUICK:
Q. Have you already shared your driver's license with Ms. Hammond or do you have that, Mr. Schuster?
A. I have it.
Q. Mr. Chairman, I have a South Carolina driver's license indicating an address of 27 North Basilica Avenue in Hanahan, South Carolina, 29406. The same address is indicated on the voter's registration information card.

Mr. Schuster, Hanahan is in Berkeley County; is that correct?
A. That's correct, sir.

Printed Page 2468 . . . . . Thursday, February 24, 1994
Q. That is south of Moncks Corner, I guess towards Charleston by some, what, 10, 15 miles?
A. It's exactly 13 miles south of Moncks Corner. The sort of area where I live is -- you got the Seaboard Coastal Railroad tracks and it's Hanahan and then you've got Charleston County right next to it and I live about 12 miles from Northwoods Mall. So it's in the Northwoods area, but it's in Berkeley County.
Q. So prior to 1990 or 1992, when you voted for congressional candidates, you voted in the First Congressional District?
A. That's correct, sir.
Q. Thank you. Mr. Schuster, if you would please state for the record your full name.
A. Charles Edward Schuster.
Q. And as we said you live in Hanahan, South Carolina?
A. That's correct.
Q. And you're currently employed, I believe, with the South Carolina Department of Agriculture?
A. That's correct, sir.
Q. Could you briefly describe your duties with the department?
A. Yes. I'm in the laboratory division of the South Carolina Department of Agriculture and I'm responsible for enforcing the ten -- ten laws that are South Carolina laws pertaining to food protection, sir.
Q. What types of food protection laws do you enforce?
A. The Food and Cosmetic Act of 1972, the Richland Act of 1962, the -- let's see, we have the Egg Grading Act of -- I'm not sure exactly what year.
Q. So you would tend to inspect at the wholesale level or do you inspect --
A. Yes. Yes, wholesale manufacturers and warehouse in southeast.
Q. So you're not an inspector of grocery stores and that sort of thing?
A. Well, the -- yes, sir, the only time I get involved with grocery stores is when we have consumer complaints and we have a problem, I'll go out to the grocery store. The Weights and Measures Division of our agency primarily inspects grocery stores.
Q. You have been employed at the department since 1974, I believe?
A. That's right.
Q. If you were to be elected to the South Carolina Public Service Commission, what would be your intention as to your employment with the department?
A. Well, since the Public Service Commission is a, I understand, a full time job, I would have to resign, sir.
Printed Page 2469 . . . . . Thursday, February 24, 1994
Q. Mr. Schuster, do you own any utility stock?
A. No, sir, I don't.
Q. Does anyone in your household including your wife own any utility stock?
A. No, sir. My mother, I think, has stocks in -- I think it's 1500 shares in SCANA Corporation.
Q. And she does not live with you?
A. No, sir, she doesn't.
Q. Your wife, I believe, is Ms. Karen Schuster; is that correct?
A. That's correct, sir.
Q. And where is she employed?
A. She's employed at Santee Cooper.
Q. What are her responsibilities there, sir?
A. She's a drafter and she's drafts and designs electrical substations for Santee Cooper.
Q. Do you understand that Santee Cooper is a wholesaler to some degree of electrical power in this state?
A. Yes, sir. They sell -- yes, I do.
Q. Who do they tend to sell power to?
A. Mostly to the -- the 15 electric co-ops in the state. They also sell to people like Georgetown -- the city of Georgetown and they do sell some of it to South Carolina Electric and Gas and also Carolina -- Carolina Power and Light. The primary customers is 15 electric co-ops of South Carolina.
Q. And what are her responsibilities with Santee Cooper, did you say?
A. She -- she is in the Design Section and she designs electrical substations.
Q. She has no responsibilities as it relates to the buying or selling of wholesale electricity?
A. No, sir. No, she does not.
Q. Are there any other relationships or ownership interests in property or stocks that you feel would be appropriate to disclose to this committee that could at least raise the question or the inference of perhaps a conflict of interest?
A. No, sir. I would say that in 1902, my grandfather helped build the Reading River Electrical plant, but he died in 1931, so I --
Q. The statute of limitations has run out.
A. Yes, sir.
Q. What prompted your interest in serving on the commission?
A. Well, first off, I feel like I'd do an excellent job. That was my primary interest. I thought that I'm qualified and my work I deal with a

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