Journal of the House of Representatives
of the Second Session of the 110th General Assembly
of the State of South Carolina
being the Regular Session Beginning Tuesday, January 11, 1994

Page Finder Index
| Printed Page 2620, Feb. 24 | Printed Page 2640, Feb. 24 |
Printed Page 2630 . . . . . Thursday, February 24, 1994
A. I would certainly think so. I don't see where somebody else should have to pay for something that they don't really use or don't need themselves, but sometimes that's hard to define, that's true.
Q. When you approach your service as a commissioner, how do you get ready for cases, Mr. Bowers? What do you typically do to get ready for a case whether it be a rate case or a certificate of necessity for a trucking outfit? How do you get ready for it?
A. The truth is, we don't know anything except the name of the case, the people involved, the interveners, the applicant and, of course, our staff -- and anybody -- any protestants. We really don't know what it's all about until we get into the hearing.

In other words, we don't read about what all they want in this matter. It's lying there when we get there and we walk into the hearing room and we start with an empty hand. But, of course, we know it is, but we don't know any details.
Q. What use do you make of your staff there, Mr. Bowers, you personally? What do you ask the staff to do for you to help you get ready for a case?
A. All kind of research and I might add that I don't believe any commission is any better than its staff and we have a good staff. I would put them up against anybody. I'm real proud of them.
Q. You've been on the commission now, I believe, for 12 years. This is your 12th year on the commission?
A. It will be in July, yes, sir.
Q. And I would have to imagine that you're proud of what the commission has accomplished during that period of time, and I don't mean to denigrate what you have accomplished, but to serve four more years, you must have some goals that you want to accomplish during the next four years. What would those be? What types of improvements would you like to make whether it be staff wise or commission wise? What problems would you like to tackle specifically? What would you like to accomplish?
A. I don't know of any changes I would like to make in our staff because as I said a moment ago, I'm very happy with them. But I would like to continue to try to help the people and keep the rates down, not only the telephone and electricity, but the water and gas and everything else. Just try to be of help to -- of course, when they call in a complaint, we get right on it.
Q. Mr. Bowers, there is a tension naturally between a company that needs to make money to stay in business and the consumer need to get something cheap. One of the new concepts that you've been confronted

Printed Page 2631 . . . . . Thursday, February 24, 1994
with is wholesale wheeling of electricity where folks can come in and sell electricity on the wholesale level. Taken to the next level that would mean that you could perhaps wheel the sale of electricity at the retail level?
A. That's true.
Q. What concerns would you have as a regulator about either wholesale or retail wheeling?
A. Well, of course, we never have done that --
Q. Right.
A. -- in our state. Of course, the federal people have -- they are in charge of the wholesale wheeling. I really don't know how to answer that because it hasn't come up to where we've had to act on it. I would look at the facts at that time and vote accordingly.
Q. If I compared it to the analogy of insurance sales where if you had true adverse selection, the only folks left in the pot would be those that couldn't afford insurance any way because they all had problems. If you compare that to residential retail wheeling, the only folks that are going to be left that don't go purchase the cheapest power is going to be the person that lives out in Cassatt where there not -- the line has got to run a long way. What concerns does that bring to your thinking?
A. Mike, I'm not sure that I know exactly how to answer that, I'm not -- we have -- but we haven't, like I say, gotten into that and I think I would have to do a little studying.
Q. Yes, sir. I understand. And that is truly a federal question at this point.
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Mr. Bowers, do you have any recommendations for improving the current process of screening for members of the Public Service Commission?
A. No, sir, I don't. I think you're certainly all qualified to take the candidates as you have and, as you well know, we used the Merit Selection Panel for three times that I ran and, of course, we had -- still had to go through this screening committee the same way. But I think you're doing a wonderful job.

I didn't know what to expect when I came in here because I -- like I said, I've been through this a number of times, but I think it's a little more in it now than it was when they had it before.
Q. Thank you. That's all, Mr. Chairman.
REPRESENTATIVE QUINN: Any questions from the committee? Representative Kennedy.

Printed Page 2632 . . . . . Thursday, February 24, 1994
EXAMINATION BY REPRESENTATIVE KENNEDY:
Q. Mr. Bowers, right?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Mr. Bowers, I'm Representative Kennedy. Would you forgive -- give for me, since you have served on the Public Service Commission, tell me some of the changes that you personally have been involved in creating a better Public Service Commission? What are some of the things that you, yourself, have been involved in?
A. Representative Kennedy, if I could answer it this way, I'm not sure that I can pinpoint any one good thing, but when I came on this commission in 1982, and I don't mean this to sound ugly, but it was so bad that when people would ask me where I worked, I wouldn't say the Public Service Commission, I said I worked for the state. But that has improved.

I think you will -- if you will think back, you have not seen any bad publicity about the Public Service Commission for a long time and even during this reconstruction, you have seen nothing that we have done wrong. We've tried to do the best job that we can with what we have.
Q. Let me ask you this, sir, you talk about your staff. How many employees are there total on your staff at the Public Service Committee?
A. We have 128, we're supposed to have, that is. As you know during reconstruction, they took 29 of your safety men from us. We had 150 something, but we are down to 119 now and we have not been rehiring people who are -- rehiring someone when someone quits.

We've had bad budget problems and we're just waiting -- hoping that come July, that that will be change and that we can fill these vacancies that we need to.
Q. Do you feel, Mr. Bowers, that out of those 100 employees that you have a good mix there of minority employees?
A. I have that -- you're speaking of the Affirmative Action?
Q. Yes, sir.
A. We have, like I said, 128 people. We're down now to 119. We have -- in the minority, we have 15 people out of that figure and we have 37 females. But it was better than that a year or two ago, but some of people we hired, somebody else would go hire them. Offer them more money. So it's not as good as it ought to be, but we're getting close and it has been better.
Q. How many of those 15 are in management positions?
A. I can't honestly answer that, but Carolyn Nelson is really the one in charge of all of the employees there. She works out very well and we have a number of positions other than just --

Printed Page 2633 . . . . . Thursday, February 24, 1994
Q. Thank you.
REPRESENTATIVE QUINN: Senator.
EXAMINATION BY SENATOR JACKSON:
Q. Mr. Bowers, if you --
A. Senator Jackson.
Q. -- could rate the staff of the Public Service Commission as well as the commission itself and the categories were outstanding, good, fair and poor, first, how would you rate this staff, the overall staff?
A. Excellent. We have some brilliant people, Mr. Jackson, on our staff.
Q. What about the commission which would be the commissioners?
A. The commissioners?
Q. Yes.
A. I have no problem. I think we have some people that really know what they're supposed to do and they try to do it in the best they can and that's the reason I was telling Representative Kennedy that, you don't hear any complaints about the Public Service Commission.
Q. So how would you rate the same, excellent?
A. Excellent. Yes, sir.
Q. The final question is how much does the commission or the commissioners depend on the staff in hearings and after the hearings in reviewing the matters that came before the commission?
A. As a commissioner myself, I'll answer that, that I depend on them a lot. We have some people that's essentially brilliant when it comes to certain -- whether it's utilities, the gas department or whether it's -- a whatever. I really have a lot of confidence in them. That helps a lot.
Q. And, finally, just one additional question, do you often find yourself disagreeing with the staff's recommendations?
A. Occasionally, but not very often. I do mean -- just almost none.
Q. Thank you.
REPRESENTATIVE QUINN: Any more questions for --
EXAMINATION BY DOCTOR HATTON:
Q. Mr. Chairman, I just want to ask one question which is a follow on to Representative Kennedy's question. He kind of stole my thunder. That was the question I wanted to ask you, but he let you off the hook too easily I think.

As a sitting commissioner, I'd like to know of what case or issue resolution are you most proud? Besides changing the imagine of the commission, what particular item, case or some substantive piece of work has been accomplished during your term that you're very, very proud of?

I'm a newcomer to the state and this helps me also to frame some of the issues and how they are being resolved.

Printed Page 2634 . . . . . Thursday, February 24, 1994
A. That's a little bit hard to answer, but there has been a number of things, when we go and hear a case, and I might not see it like all the other commissioners, but I go by what I hear and what I see. And, of course, I have to talk with my staff -- our staff.

Then many times, I have voted the utilities no increase and when I do something like that and other things that I feel are helping the people, that's the important part of my job, if I'm helping somebody.
RE-EXAMINATION BY REPRESENTATIVE KENNEDY:
Q. I want to ask Mr. Bowers just one more question. Last year we had a bill introduced into the house dealing with the possibility of privatizing Santee Cooper. How do you feel about that?
A. I don't know, but I wish I could buy power from them. They sure have good rates, I can tell you that. I think my position would be to leave it like it is. I mean I may be -- but that's what would be my position.
Q. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
A. By the way, Representative Kennedy, I see you're from Greeleyville I'm very familiar with all of Williamsburg County and I have not met you, but it's good to see you.
Q. Very good. Good to see you, sir.
REPRESENTATIVE QUINN: Any other question from the committee? Well, Mr. Bowers, thank you. I appreciate your time and I guess that's --
A. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and it's a pleasure being here and thank you so very much.
REPRESENTATIVE QUINN: Thank you.

PERSONAL DATA QUESTIONNAIRE SUMMARY

1. Cecil A. Bowers

Home Address: Business Address:

807 Kirkwood Circle P.O. Drawer 11649

Camden, SC 29020 Columbia, SC 29211

2. He was born in Cassatt, South Carolina on September 1, 1926.

Social Security Number: ***-**-****.

3. S.C. Driver's License Number: *******;

S.C. Voter's Registration Number: 0 57 438.

4. He married Evelyn Reynolds on March 17, 1944. He has four children:Linda Bowers Shaw, age 46, nurse; Steven Reynolds

Printed Page 2635 . . . . . Thursday, February 24, 1994
Bowers, age 44, teacher; Rebecca Bowers Moonehan, age 37, secretary; and Julie Evelyn Rogers, age 31, voluntary protection program coordinator.

5. Military Service: U.S. Marine Corps, Rank PFC, Honorably Discharged in 1946.

6. He attended public schools in Kershaw County through the 10th grade and then entered the Marines in 1944.

7. He served as Kershaw County Coroner from 1975 to 1982, and has served as a Public Service Commissioner since 1982.

8. He lost his 1954 bid for County Commissioner (in Kershaw County?), now called County Council.

9. He was a radio announcer and salesman from 1950 to 1956, worked in newspaper circulation and sales from 1956 to 1961, returned to radio announcing and sales from 1961 to 1970, and managed a radio station from 1970 to 1982.

22. He has spent $119 on preparation of letters, $48.20 on letterhead and envelopes, and $49.30 on stamps.

26. Professional organizations: Southeastern Assoc. of Regulatory Utility Commissioners; National Assoc. of Regulatory Utility Commissioners.

27. Civic, charitable, etc. organizations:First Baptist Church, Camden; American Legion; Veterans of Foreign Wars; Optimist Club; Mason; Shriner.

29. Five letters of reference:

(a) John C. West, Esquire

23-B Shelter Cove Island, Suite 400

Hilton Head Island, SC 29928

785-4300

Printed Page 2636 . . . . . Thursday, February 24, 1994
(b) Robert E. David, Executive Director

SC Employment Security Commission

P.O. Box 995

Columbia, SC 29202

737-2617

(c) Austin M. Sheheen, Jr., C.P.A.

Sheheen, Hancock & Godwin

1011 Fair Street

P.O. Drawer 428

Camden, SC 29020

432-1424

(d) James B. McGuirt

Kershaw County Administrator

Room 202 Courthouse

1121 Broad Street

Camden, SC 29020

(e) Samuel R. Small, Chairman and CEO

First Palmetto Savings Bank

407 DeKalb Street

P.O. Box 861

Camden, SC 29020

432-2265

30. Fifth District.

MR. COUICK: If you would take the seat on the left and if you will remain standing, I'd like to administer the oath before we get started. If you'd raise your right hand.
MARY GAIL DOUGLAS, having been duly sworn, testified as follows:
MS. DOUGLAS - EXAMINATION BY MR. COUICK:
Q. I know you have someone with you today that's special to you. Why don't you introduce him to the committee?
A. I have two sons and this is our oldest child, Brad Douglas. And I do appreciate his support today.
Q. Please have a seat.
A. I appreciate you letting him be a part of this.
Q. You're very welcome. Ms. Douglas, I'm looking at your driver's license now and I see that you live at Route 1, Box 58B, Winnsboro, South Carolina, 29180. Your voter registration indicates the same address. What part of the county is that?
A. It's in Winnsboro.

Printed Page 2637 . . . . . Thursday, February 24, 1994
Q. Is it right in the city near the city limits?
A. Maybe a mile and a half out.
Q. And that is in Fairfield County; is that correct?
A. That's correct.
Q. Great. Thank you. Ms. Douglas, do you own any utility stock?
A. We own some utility stock with Gulf State Utility, but it is just a few shares.
Q. And that Gulf State --
A. And those --
Q. -- does not --
A. Those are in our sons' names for investment for them.
Q. Do they provide power service in South Carolina that you're aware of?
A. Not that I'm aware of.
Q. If you were to be made aware that they sold power on a wholesale basis to any utility in South Carolina, would it be a problem divesting yourself of those shares should you be elected?
A. That would not be a problem.
Q. You are employed by the State of South Carolina in the Fairfield County Council on Aging; is that correct?
A. The -- that I am employed with the Council on Aging in Fairfield County and it's considered an arm of county government.
Q. Okay.
A. But we do receive the benefits of the state government.
Q. I ask this question because we've asked it to other folks that are state employees, I take it that you've -- or county employees, you've complied with your county's leave policies to the extent you've been involved in this process?
A. I have.
Q. Thank you. Ms. Douglas, why have you decided to run for the Public Service Commission?
A. I didn't enter this process lightly and without a lot of thought and deliberation in that process. I offer myself and the talent that I have and my decision making abilities that I've learned through the Council on Aging and through my work as a nurse at our local hospital there.

I offer those to the Fifth District of the Public Service Commission or to the State of South Carolina. I believe that I could bring to the table the judgment that's needed in making the decisions, the skills that are required to ask the right question in making those decisions. And I would be willing to take the responsibility and the accountability that goes along with that decision making process.

Printed Page 2638 . . . . . Thursday, February 24, 1994
I would really welcome the opportunity to bring that talent to the table at the Public Service Commission for the State of South Carolina.
Q. That is a tremendous responsibility that you take on yourself when you commit to that level of service to the state in whatever field it is that you commit to do that. What would cause you to choose the Public Service Commission over your continued service for the Council on Aging or something perhaps more akin to your previous employment history? Why the Public Service Commission to commit that level of talent and personal commitment?
A. I don't think that it's a big secret that a lot of work that we do with the Councils on Aging throughout this state deal with utility bills, whether they're telephone bills, light bills, gas bills, whatever. I've always been interested in how certain things are calculated, how decisions are made in that process and -- I think another part of the question that you asked is why would I be interested in leaving the Council on Aging --
Q. Yes, ma'am.
A. -- and going to the Public Service Commission? Here again, I've been a part of the Council on Aging for 13 years, going into my 14th year and I think when you acquire skills that could contribute to other issues and concerns in the state and you're willing to contribute those skills to that effort, then I think you should be willing to make that contribution and that's why I have applied to the Public Service Commission.
Q. You would seem to indicate by your reference to your experience with the Council on Aging with the problems that the elderly have with sometimes paying their bills, I would take it, power bills or getting utility service that you would have a strong consumer orientation.

Please tell me how you would adjust that with the general balancing act that commissioners are called upon to do to ensure that there will be utility companies around because they have a fair rate of return to service the consumers. What approach will you take to hearing a rate case or anything else before the Public Service commission?
A. I certainly wouldn't want me to be -- I wouldn't want to imply that the economic issue would not be first and foremost. I do believe that there are fair and equitable ways that both sides could be addressed. And I think that justifying it to make reference to rate increases -- if justification is there for a rate increase from a utility company, then I would certainly understand that request.
Q. Yes, ma'am. Do you prepare the budget for the Council on Aging there in Fairfield County?
A. Yes, I do. Along with our finance officer.

Printed Page 2639 . . . . . Thursday, February 24, 1994
Q. Do you have experience in personnel policies and things, administering those?
A. I am the personnel officer.
Q. How large is the Council on Aging office in terms of personnel?
A. We have 23 employees and 16 of those are full time.
Q. What type of policies have you adopted to ensure fair hiring practice in Winnsboro and Fairfield County in terms of minority hiring and both in terms of gender and in terms of minority hiring? What approaches have you taken to ensure that there is a fair balance in your staff there?
A. Well, we meet the required -- I don't want to use the word quota, but in the interview process, and we have certainly reached that and met that requirement, I --
Q. The reason I ask the question, Ms. Douglas, is not to inquire specifically about whether you meet the letter of the law or whatever, it's to get -- allow the committee and, in turn, the General Assembly to have an understanding of your personal commitment to fair employment practices because not only will you be called upon to hear rate cases at the Public Service Commission, you and the other six commissioners will, in turn, administer -- be charged with administering an agency which employs a number of persons. What type of a personal commitment do you bring to that position should you be elected to fair hiring practices?
A. Well, I think the first piece of that would be the qualification factors that are there. You want the most qualified individuals to do the job that's required to do. I don't have a policy that we have had to adhere to that states that you have to hire so many females, so many males.
Q. Yes, I understand. What one or two major concerns would you think would be confronting the Public Service Commission right now that you would look forward to tackling should you be elected?
A. I have read with interest about the deregulation of utility companies. I think that that would be a priority there.
Q. Can I ask you to --
A. I really don't know. I don't know enough to answer that question.
Q. If we could stop there for a moment, and you bring up an interesting topic. Deregulation has been done in the airline industry to some degree. It's been done in a number of other areas. What benefits and what problems would you foresee to deregulation of major utilities in South Carolina?
A. You're asking what problems?
Q. Or benefits that would come -- if we have a regulated utility system now in South Carolina now whether it be gas, electric, phone, et cetera, what -- if we were to deregulate that or just let that more or less explode

| Printed Page 2620, Feb. 24 | Printed Page 2640, Feb. 24 |
Page Finder Index